Battle wrote:PDad wrote:Battle wrote:PDad wrote:OK Force '94? They were knocked into the losers bracket 0-11 by a solid SoCal team that was not highly rated and almost all 96s. I think the higher-rated PGF teams would have fared well against them too.
Yeah, you are correct. I don't know what happened to Force. I don't see the Cruisers beating them on a consistent basis like that. I disagree with the last part. IMO Force would have held their own against the top PGF teams. They handled the 2nd and 3rd place finisher at the HOF and both of those teams beat Glory to put them in 4th.
Who was the 3rd place finisher? HOF was in June and teams peak at different times. OK Force was probably better prepared to play in June than teams from states that play HS ball in the Spring.
I don't remember the 3rd place finisher but it happened. So now you're saying that Glory came to the HOF with a weaker team than when they went to PGF or Force was just better prepared? Nope...Both came to the HOF and one got 4th while the other got 1st. That's the bottom line. Anything else is a presumption.The Lasers made a commendable run through the losers bracket, but they didn't face much competition down there. Name a strong team they beat.
NE Sizzle, Tx Aces, Tx Bombers were all strong.
The last 2 teams they beat to finish 5th, Sizzle and Bombers, were relatively strong. Were they considered contenders to win it all beforehand?
Prior to this year, it was possible for a solid team to finish 9th in ASA/USA Nats by virtue of a favorable draw. I'd say the weaker field this year, due to PGF, changed that to 7th and possibly even 5th.
That's stating the obvious again. Anybody knows that if the teams all played one Nats, then the competition level rises. The same is also true for PGF as with ASA.You can't determine the relative strength of teams strictly on the final order of finish. Cases in point:
- CA Cruisers beat OK Force '94 11-0, yet they finished lower (17th and 9th respectively). ...
In the ASA HOF the Rockers beat OK Force 94 13-4 which put Force in the loser bracket. In the championship game, OK Force beat the Rockers 11-4 and then again 11-7. Now since the Rockers beat Force so bad in the first game, if order of finish doesn't matter, does that mean that the Rockers are a better team?
No, the 1-2 head-to-head record would indicate otherwise, more so than the order of finish (note: there was a better argument to be made with your example, but you missed making it).
Well I'm certainly glad you pointed out me missing something. Just another +1 for ASA. I stated the example that I wanted. By your own admission you said that finishes doesn't matter. I say it's the only thing that matters and it sure matters more than individual scores. Your fairly strong SoCal team barely cracked the top 20 while Force made the Top 10. You proved my point more than I did. I'm not saying PGF was definitely stronger than ASA - they both had strong teams. I'm just saying you can't rate ASA as having a better field of teams.
And...PGF can't rate their Nats as having the best teams because it's held in CA. That seems to be the norm here. In your opinion, am I really that far off base?
You provide useful info about the southern and midwestern teams because you're more familiar with them, but you don't really have a basis to evaluate the SoCal teams that played PGF.
Neither ASA nor PGF will draw all the top teams as long as both draw a desirable group of college coaches and PGF stays in SoCal. The biggest difference between the two is PGF's field of teams is highly concentrated in talent and their weakest team is at worst an average ASA team. BTW, Coach Hutchins (Mich.) was at PGF and I heard her call the 170+ teams in Chattanooga "crazy."
One of your weakest team didn't qualify for either ASA nor PGF so your example of worst PGF being avg at ASA has no merit.
You admitted that most of the strong Socal teams are even with Glory in the rankings, so that would put them ranked around 6th or 7th at ASA at best. I understand that you had college coaches at PGF but ASA had coaches also. Ask them why they didn't go to PGF and they would say...why go to a showcase when I can go to the real National that has been held for years and proven to be the most competitive.
How you can say this, I have no idea! This is subjective, at best. I will tell you this. A very good TNL team went to ASA and won it fairly easily, losing only one game by a run or two. That same team is good but not necessarily the best team from So Cal. Now, you could make the argument that they won ASA States. But, the following PGF teams did not even do states:
Firecrackers Blanco, Corona Angels, So Cal Athletics, Bat Busters Doug, and Renegades Fox.The TNL team that won ASA is on par, at best, with these teams. I think your argument early on was that ASA had the better competition. Anyone that has half a brain realizes that is not the case. At the end of the day it is all subjective and some of the stuff you utter is, like I said earlier, nonsensical!
Case in point:Spazsdad wrote:Battle wrote:Spazsdad wrote:Battle wrote: Before these naïve out of state teams decided to venture to your state and play PGF, they need to know the whole story in which you will never tell because it is to your best interest to keep it in CA. Fact is...weather is good but location sucks and competition is not that much better than ASA.
May I ask why you feel the location "sucks"
I don't think is sucks so much as someone traveling from the Eastern US would. That was the point I was trying to make. We would travel there, no problem but we are central US per se.
Again, then
please quantify why it would suck from the East. Is it just distance that is a factor because flying into SoCal certainly is not difficult or as costly as some less traveled destinations.
You say one thing, then back pedal and say something different?! Like I said, nonsensical!Battle wrote:Spazsdad wrote:Again, then please quantify why it would suck from the East. Is it just distance that is a factor because flying into SoCal certainly is not difficult or as costly as some less traveled destinations.
I would say yes, it is about distance when it is a head to head with ASA if ASA is closer or more central based. I do agree that it is just as far for you guys to travel to TN as it is for TN people to travel to you but
some might not look at it that way even though you have a strong case to such. I really don't know what to do about it but IMO just "competition is better" will not be enough for the years to come.
I could be wrong so it's JMO.
I think I understand what you are trying to say, despite the lack of grammar. Whether someone is flying in from an hour away or five hours away, as long as it isn't more costly, what does it matter. Especially if wanting to play the "best competition". Obviously that will be subjective, and I have not seen anyone, including you, make the argument for ASA.
I guess at the end of the day it is like arguing with a crazy person the merits of them being crazy! You will never win that argument!