PGF v. ASA

[arkansassoftball]

The Houston Qualifier may have been weakly attended by 14U, but the 16u and 18u was loaded with strong competition, especially since ASA 16A and ASA Reg 7 Gold Qualifiers were both also going on in Tx. There were 27 teams in 16U and 36 in 18U at the Houston Premier Qualifier and the teams that Qulaified are teams most people know as stronger teams.

[AM Softball]

I believe most people just wish that Nationals were in different locations every year (maybe rotate west, mid west, south, East, etc.) and pick different locations within those areas. Then it would be equally fair for all teams involved in the sport on a National level, which is what each organization is trying to promote.

It sucks when 12u is in Auburn and then 14u the following year is in Birmingham and issues like that need to be fixed...Who wants to go there two years in row? Why does the same region get these tournaments two years in a row? We've seen that and we want to play in a different environment now.

My team qualified for Premier last weekend and I am excited to play in Ca for many reasons. Many of our players' families and friends haven't seen them play at Nationals because we have always had to go so far. But if I played here in CA every year after every year, I think that would get old and quite boring. The college coaches will go wherever the tournaments are held and where the teams are. Then, why not make it more diverse?

I have played/coached at Nationals in Lodi, Midland, Murrieta, Auburn, Reno, Baltimore, etc. etc. etc. and honestly, Midland is a hellhole but I am glad I had the experience of traveling and seeing what a hellhole it was for myself. I remember the crazy thunder and lightning storms and I can tell you how many games we played in a day and everything about it...good or bad, experiences are awesome so it was kinda cool in a way to be in Midland. Will I ever go again? Hell no, but at least I can say I have been somewhere out of my backyard.

Traveling is the best part of softball and the friends you make along the way. Everyone loves playing teams from other parts of the country and don't mind paying to go there....but not all the time. Mix it up so they get to see Cali and what we offer too.

I think that is the biggest issue with ASA.

PS. Off topic Is there any truth to ASA sending out an email to all umpires saying that if they umpire in the PGF, they will never umpire an ASA tournament again? It is something I heard this weekend and was curious. If true, ASA is definitely trying to counteract the PGF. Some people have said they aren't trying to do anything but this sounds like they are.

[1prouddad]

I believe most people just wish that Nationals were in different locations every year (maybe rotate west, mid west, south, East, etc.) and pick different locations within those areas. Then it would be equally fair for all teams involved in the sport on a National level, which is what each organization is trying to promote.

It sucks when 12u is in Auburn and then 14u the following year is in Birmingham and issues like that need to be fixed...Who wants to go there two years in row? Why does the same region get these tournaments two years in a row? We've seen that and we want to play in a different environment now.

My team qualified for Premier last weekend and I am excited to play in Ca for many reasons. Many of our players' families and friends haven't seen them play at Nationals because we have always had to go so far. But if I played here in CA every year after every year, I think that would get old and quite boring. The college coaches will go wherever the tournaments are held and where the teams are. Then, why not make it more diverse?

I have played/coached at Nationals in Lodi, Midland, Murrieta, Auburn, Reno, Baltimore, etc. etc. etc. and honestly, Midland is a hellhole but I am glad I had the experience of traveling and seeing what a hellhole it was for myself. I remember the crazy thunder and lightning storms and I can tell you how many games we played in a day and everything about it...good or bad, experiences are awesome so it was kinda cool in a way to be in Midland. Will I ever go again? Hell no, but at least I can say I have been somewhere out of my backyard.

Traveling is the best part of softball and the friends you make along the way. Everyone loves playing teams from other parts of the country and don't mind paying to go there....but not all the time. Mix it up so they get to see Cali and what we offer too.

I think that is the biggest issue with ASA.

PS. Off topic Is there any truth to ASA sending out an email to all umpires saying that if they umpire in the PGF, they will never umpire an ASA tournament again? It is something I heard this weekend and was curious. If true, ASA is definitely trying to counteract the PGF. Some people have said they aren't trying to do anything but this sounds like they are.

Very well said, I completely agree.
In regards to the umpires, I heard that was happening last year as well.

[ssarge]

At the end of the day, PGF 14s will be a CA state championship.

I'm not sure that is true. But even if it is, I'm not sure it is insignificant. CA teams have made a pretty good run in ASA 14 Nationals over the years.


Regards,

Scott

[ssarge]

Scott, I dont disagree with your assessment of PGF. But with the exception of 18Gold, ASA isnt in panic mode yet, especially at the lower levels. If they lose 50 teams from 14U to PGF, they are still at 100 teams and the spin is that they are responding to the complaints of the 150+ field at 14u last year. They dont care that they are not getting the best, otherwise they wouldnt hand out berths to teams that only cut checks to be in qualifiers that dont get played, or only have 4-5 teams in them.

Then more's the pity. LAST year, they weren't in "panic mode" at all, INCLUDING 18Gold. The air of superiority from ASA HQ - and from some of the regional folks - was palpable. Their dispragement of Premier showed the total lack of grasp on the issues that were eroding the kingdom. And it all played out as many predicted it would.

If ASA is not also concerned about 16s and 14s, they just have their head in the sand.

"Which is better to attend for college scouting - 16s or 18Gold?" Question gets asked about every day on some message board or another. And the answer is pretty simple in regards to PGF - college coaches are in one location for it all. Beyond weather, local attractions, quality of tournament, etc., this is just undeniable.

The pendulum WILL continue to swing. This is a sea change, and IMO, it is too late for ASA to fix it. Last year, they possibly could have. Not now. Might take a few years to see it fully play out, but it will. It's not that ASA is going anywhere. Obviously, they will be around in JO forever. But in terms of the national championship tournaments attracting the best field, and the lion's share of college recruiters, that will be Premier.

Regards,

Scott

[ssarge]

Traveling is the best part of softball and the friends you make along the way. Everyone loves playing teams from other parts of the country and don't mind paying to go there....but not all the time. Mix it up so they get to see Cali and what we offer too.

Seriously? OMG, no. I realize that people have different objectives in softball. But the coaches - and many players - of the top travel teams would in the aggregate, feel differently. At least IMO. If they could play top competition in their own area, AND attract college recruiters, I don't think top travel teams would leave their back yard. Ever.

And the Nationals, by and large, are the purview of the top travel teams. And if you have to travel to compete, PGF offers some advantages. I realize SoCal is still a road trip for many teams. But families with kids at two age groups can see both in one location. It is a direct flight from almost anywhere, so it is no more than 5 hours, rather than 8-10. Fares are relatively cheap. You know you'll be playing as scheduled when you get to SoCal, not looking at rain through a hotel window. There are many other things to do.

If I never travel on a plane to another softball tournament, I'll be happy. Once you've coached close to a decade in TB, PLUS traveled to see your DD play in college, the prospect of another week - or even weekEND - away from home seems incredibly unappealing to me. ESPECIALLY if it takes two flights to get there, and THERE is some place you would NEVER GO for any other reason than someone bid $500 more to gain the ASA event.

I realize other people's opinions may vary.

Best regards,

Scott

[Battle]

This why teams will be at Premier Nationals to watch all 3 age groups:
As of today. More to come.
Recruiters:

Arizona Western College coached by Nicole Bethurum
Auburn University coached by Tina Deese
Ball State University coached by Craig Nicholson
Binghamton University coached by Michelle Burrell
Boise State coached by Erin Thorpe
BYU coached by Gordon Eakin
Cal Poly coached by Jenny Condon
Cal State Bakersfield coached by Kathy Welter
Cal State Univ. San Marcos coached by Dave Williams
Cal State University Monterey Bay coached by Andrea Kenney
Cal-Berkeley coached by Diane Ninemire
California Baptist University coached by Mike Smith
Chapman University coached by Janet Lloyd
Claremont-Mudd-Scripps Colleges coached by Betsy Hipple
College Of Southern Nevada coached by Ysidro Jimenez
Columbia University coached by Kayla Noonan
Concordia University coached by Crystal Rosenthal
Florida coached by Tim Walton
Fordham University coached by Bridget Orchard
Fresno State coached by Margie Wright
George Mason University coached by Joe Verbanic
hard knocks coached by Steve Aquila
Harvard University coached by Jenny Allard
Houston Baptist University coached by Mary-Ellen Hall
Idaho State University coached by Interim - Shelly Prochaska
Idaho State University coached by Julie Wright
Illinois State University coached by Melinda Fischer
James Madison University coached by Katie Flynn
Lehigh University coached by Fran Troyan
Lenoir-Rhyne University coached by Shena Hollar
LONG BEACH STATE UNIVERSITY coached by Kim Sowder
Long Island University coached by Roy Kortmann
Loyola Chicago coached by Yvette Healy
Loyola Marymount University coached by Gary Ferrin
LSU coached by Yvette Girouard
Menlo College coached by Danielle Stines
Michigan State University coached by Jacquie Joseph
Middle Tennessee State University coached by Sue Nevar
Mississippi State University coached by Jay Miller
Mississippi Valley State University coached by Lee Smith
NC State coached by Lisa Navas
New Mexico coached by Erica Beach
New Mexico State university coached by kathy rodolph
Northern Illinois University coached by Lindsay Chouinard
Ohio University coached by Jodi Hermanek
Oklahoma State coached by Rich Wieligman
Oklahoma State University coached by Rich Wieligman
OnDeck Softball coached by Derek Allister
Penn State coached by Robin Petrini
Purdue University coached by Kim Maher
Sacramento State coached by Kathy Strahan
San Jose State University coached by Peter Turner
Sonoma State University coached by Jennifer Bridges
South Carolina coached by Beverly Smith
Stanford University coached by John Rittman
Texas A&M University coached by Jo Evans
Texas Southern Univ. coached by Worley Barker
Texas Tech coached by Shanon Hays
UC Davis coached by Karen Yoder
UC Santa Barbara coached by Brie Galicinao
UCLA coached by Kelly Inouye-Perez
UNC Charlotte coached by Aimee DeVos
UNC Greensboro coached by Jennifer Herzig
University at Buffalo coached by Jennifer Teague
University of California, Riverside coached by Connie Miner
University of Central Arkansas coached by David Kuhn
University of Georgia coached by Lu Harris Champer
University of Hawaii coached by Robert Coolen
University of Houston coached by Kim Nesloney
University of Iowa coached by Marla Looper
University of Kansas coached by Megan Smith
University of Kentucky coached by Rachel Lawson
University of Louisville coached by Sandy Pearsall
University of Maryland coached by laura watten
University of Memphis coached by Windy Thees
University of Michigan coached by Carol Hutchins
University of Mississippi coached by Missy Dickerson
University of Missouri coached by Ehren Earleywine
University of Nebraska coached by Rhonda Revelle
University of Nevada coached by Matt Meuchel
University of New Mexico coached by Erica Beach
University of North Texas coached by T.J. Hubbard
University of Notre Dame coached by Deanna Gumpf
University of Oklahoma coached by Patty Gasso
University of Oregon coached by Mike White
University of Pittsburgh coached by Holly Aprile
University of San Diego coached by Melissa McElvain
University of Tennessee coached by Ralph and Karen Weekly
University of the Pacific coached by Brian Kolze
University Of Utah coached by Amy Hogue
University of Washington coached by Heather Tarr
UNLV coached by Pete Manarino
Utah State University coached by Carissa Kalaba
Utah Valley University coached by Todd Fairbourne`
Vanguard University coached by Beth Renkoski
Virginia Tech coached by Scot Thomas
Whittier College coached by Shelley Whitaker
Wichita State University coached by Mike Perniciaro
Wisconsin coached by Yvette Healy
Wright State coached by Linda Garza
Yale University coached by Barbara Reinalda

I'm curious, where did you get this list?

[Battle]

Didn't PGF just hand out 6 berths to a 14u qualifier that attracted 7 teams? That does not really sound that picky to me. Is the 6th best team in a 7 team field really the "best?" If not, PGF also is getting a watered-down championship. I don't have a gripe about it and I don't think there is anything PGF can do about it, but neither can ASA predict with certainty how a qualifier will be attended.

Colorado has 4 berths for maybe 16 teams
http://www.premiergirlsfastpitch.com/tourney10/14U.php

Same with Indy, except 6 berths.

At the end of the day, PGF 14s will be a CA state championship.

I agree.

Cali has done well in Nationals and was the state to beat. In the past they have been the best in the country because they beat the best in the country. Now with PGF and ASA nationals split, Cali will be the best of the teams willing to travel to Cali. OTOH, I don't blame the Cali teams for getting tired of traveling just to play each other in the championship but then again that is what a true national champion team does. When everything is done, unless there is a game between PGF and ASA champions no one can really say they are the best and that is a shame IMO.

[3Bsnag]

The Houston Qualifier may have been weakly attended by 14U, but the 16u and 18u was loaded with strong competition, especially since ASA 16A and ASA Reg 7 Gold Qualifiers were both also going on in Tx. There were 27 teams in 16U and 36 in 18U at the Houston Premier Qualifier and the teams that Qualified are teams most people know as stronger teams.

Don't know the TX teams that well but if true that says a lot as to the strength of teams and where they are choosing to try and play.

If those numbers are accurate, PGF has grown a lot in 16U in TX. Last year, almost every team entered qualified, something like 6 berths for 8 or 9 teams. 300% increase isn't too shabby in 12 months.

[arkansassoftball]

Houston Brackets with Results:
18U Winners-
http://www.premiergirlsfastpitch.com/to ... racket.pdf
18U Losers-
http://www.premiergirlsfastpitch.com/to ... ackets.pdf
16U Winners-
http://www.premiergirlsfastpitch.com/to ... ackets.pdf
16U Losers
http://www.premiergirlsfastpitch.com/to ... ackets.pdf