Insurance for 2012 PGF Qualifiers

[Battle]

A quick check on Expedia shows almost $400. Probably cheaper for you to fly out here than it is for him

Close...It would cost me about 600 to get there and back round trip where I would have to fly out of and that's not even including hotels that I am forced to stay in. Just those 2 things is about 1500 and I spent way less than that at ASA total. Thanks for the offer though but I will have to decline.

He might could drive there cheaper. You might check into that.

How much if you were to attend ASA Nationals in South Dakota?

Maybe a little bit more but not much and if we drive, it's a little longer of a drive than it was to TN. Now, what about you? How much is your airfare to PGF compared to TN to ASA?

[Battle]

ASA and PGF sell the same policy, from the same company, Bollinger. So they will work the same. It is a supplemental, which means after your main policy.

Most organizations have a waiver process. If you have concerns about insurance you would be better asking the organization directly.

I'm really not understanding why either one forces you to buy separate insurance if it is the same company. That's just silly on both parts.

What do you mean by "waiver process"?

[ontheblack]

I will drive to either ASA or PGF, depending on what the kid's team does. My hotel costs will be less with PGF than with ASA based on staying in a comparable brand.

My costs for Indiana a few years back was close to $4000. We figured as a team, ASA Nats cost us between $40k and $45k.

I'm really not understanding why either one forces you to buy separate insurance if it is the same company. That's just silly on both parts.

My understanding is that PGF went to ASA to work out a way for them to use one policy and not have separate fees. ASA refused. I dont know the details but expect an explanation in the coming weeks.

IMO the debate needs to be focused on which one is trying harder to do the best thing for everyone involved. PGF has a narrow focus on just fastpitch, so I believe they will make the most progress over the next few years for those of us who care mostly about girls fastpitch. As I see it with ASA, their biggest challenge is laid out in Okla21fan's comments:

Have you ever taken this into the equation? The college World Series, The former Olympic team, the National team, the JR National team, ISF, JR ISF, HOF Stadium, While your 'equation' is 'easy', when it comes to funding, is it that easy?

ASA reminds me a bit like collegiate athletics where football, and in some cases, men's hoops, pay the freight for all the other sports programs.

While I get the funding issues, that doesnt excuse them from scheduling events in places that dont make economic sense for the customer base. South Dakota? Really? How in the world is that not blatant manipulation for the sole purpose of generating revenue at our expense?

[Battle]

I will drive to either ASA or PGF, depending on what the kid's team does. My hotel costs will be less with PGF than with ASA based on staying in a comparable brand.

My costs for Indiana a few years back was close to $4000. We figured as a team, ASA Nats cost us between $40k and $45k.

I will drive also and as you said, it depends on what my kid's team does. I think I got hammered once for even suggesting driving. We like to see things as we come back so it is our preference.

I don't know how you spent less on hotels though. We spent about 600 this year. Anyone claiming that PGF is cheaper than ASA nationals has a hidden agenda IMO.

My understanding is that PGF went to ASA to work out a way for them to use one policy and not have separate fees. ASA refused. I dont know the details but expect an explanation in the coming weeks.

As long as ASA covers registered teams/players, what's stopping PGF from accepting the insurance? If PGF is doing it for the reasons that they claim, then accepting ASA would actually be better no matter what ASA does. Am I wrong? PGF has chosen to go head to head with ASA on just about everything that it does. IMO, this is one thing they should just use ASA unless it's more important to win the pissing contest.

While I get the funding issues, that doesnt excuse them from scheduling events in places that dont make economic sense for the customer base. South Dakota? Really? How in the world is that not blatant manipulation for the sole purpose of generating revenue at our expense?

I'm sorry but I don't see the difference in South Dakota and Huntington Beach in the reasons that you describe. Manipulation goes both ways.

[ontheblack]

I will drive to either ASA or PGF, depending on what the kid's team does. My hotel costs will be less with PGF than with ASA based on staying in a comparable brand.

My costs for Indiana a few years back was close to $4000. We figured as a team, ASA Nats cost us between $40k and $45k.

I will drive also and as you said, it depends on what my kid's team does. I think I got hammered once for even suggesting driving. We like to see things as we come back so it is our preference.

I don't know how you spent less on hotels though. We spent about 600 this year. Anyone claiming that PGF is cheaper than ASA nationals has a hidden agenda IMO.

No agenda, just straight facts. Hotel prices in ASA destinations during Nats are always higher than normal. With PGF, the rates with PGF were negotiated down, not up.

For example, if you were to book the Holiday Inn in Sioux Falls from June 29-July 5, a holiday weekend, a standard room is less than $110. One month later for Nats the same room if booked today is $144. I did the same price check in OC and the prices were within a few dollars for either weekend. That doesnt factor in the PGF rate.

My understanding is that PGF went to ASA to work out a way for them to use one policy and not have separate fees. ASA refused. I dont know the details but expect an explanation in the coming weeks.

As long as ASA covers registered teams/players, what's stopping PGF from accepting the insurance? If PGF is doing it for the reasons that they claim, then accepting ASA would actually be better no matter what ASA does. Am I wrong? PGF has chosen to go head to head with ASA on just about everything that it does. IMO, this is one thing they should just use ASA unless it's more important to win the pissing contest.

I am waiting for an explanation on that.

While I get the funding issues, that doesnt excuse them from scheduling events in places that dont make economic sense for the customer base. South Dakota? Really? How in the world is that not blatant manipulation for the sole purpose of generating revenue at our expense?

I'm sorry but I don't see the difference in South Dakota and Huntington Beach in the reasons that you describe. Manipulation goes both ways.
I gave you concrete evidence above that shows how ASA manipulates our costs upward. As for locations, airfare is always cheaper to larger metros than small regions like Sioux Falls and Midland.

Do you not go to Colorado for the June/July TCS events because of their lodging requirements?

[AlwaysImprove]

ASA and PGF sell the same policy, from the same company, Bollinger. So they will work the same. It is a supplemental, which means after your main policy.

Most organizations have a waiver process. If you have concerns about insurance you would be better asking the organization directly.

I'm really not understanding why either one forces you to buy separate insurance if it is the same company. That's just silly on both parts.

What do you mean by "waiver process"?

2 reasons to ask teams to use a certain insurance.

First reason is so you know you have the specified coverage. Allowing teams to bring insurance from any association, means you will have to take the time to look into what that insurance policy covers and make sure that it means requirements. That takes time and effort.

Second reason is that insurance is way to make money. With about 20% going to the association that writes the policy. While it is not much money, it is some, and these tournaments do not make much money. If that 30 bucks goes to ASA, then PGF has to make up the 30 bucks elsewhere.

Teams like ours that are signing up PGF, would prefer that all teams sign up PGF.

What do I mean by waiver process? Same with all other questions. You send an email to the contact address on the web site and ask them. If your request is reasonable, it should get consideration. Same process with ASA.

[Iluvblue]

There is no waiver procedure for either PGF or ASA that i am aware of. If you play in ASA tourneys, you MUST REGISTER each player with ASA, that registration includes the insurance. It doesnt matter what personal coverage you have.


The coverage is excellent in that it is your secondary coverage if your kid gets hurt. It is simple to do and is easily worth the money. If you dont have personal coverage, the Bollinger policy becomes your primary. But there is no waiver. You need to register each player with ASA and the coverage is part of that procedure.

[AlwaysImprove]

I will drive also and as you said, it depends on what my kid's team does. I think I got hammered once for even suggesting driving. We like to see things as we come back so it is our preference.

I don't know how you spent less on hotels though. We spent about 600 this year. Anyone claiming that PGF is cheaper than ASA nationals has a hidden agenda IMO.

Straight out BS. I have attended both ASA and PGF over the last 6 years.

ASA 10 U Nationals held in Johnson City Tennessee. We received our birth four weeks before the start of the tournament. Hotel was the Johnson City Super 8 and it was 130 a night. I called and asked to book a room two weeks after the dates on the tournament, the same room was $60 a night. 100% markup. Also they demanded a week long contract.

ASA 16 U Nationals held in College Station, TX. Host hotel was asking for $130 a night, again with a week long contract. Our team elected to stay in the closest town, about 50 miles away for $60. First morning was registration, we stopped by host hotel and they gave us a room for $80 a night, no contract. Normal rate for that room was $80. They made us commit to not telling anyone else what we were paying. As soon as we got the room we told everyone we could that they were overpaying. Ha, watching the angry line at the front desk form was fun.

PGF Last year, room was $100. Called the hotel for a room two weeks later and it was $105.

This is all dead easy to verify. Call the host hotel and ask for a room two weeks after or two weeks before the tournament. Johnson City was smart enough this last year to realize that things are not the same as they have been in the past. The published their hotel rates and the rates were reasonable.

Johnson City, Midland, College Station, Souix Falls, Bloomington, they are all similar. They are towns where the nearest town is 50+ miles away. The reason these towns host year after year is that they can count on extensive hotel revenue. Most of these hotels will be completely empty that week if ASA was not there.

When you add up hotel cost, difficulty of flights, length of tournament you get to a breaking point with how much you are willing to put up with from ASA. That is why PGF was formed. That is also why so many teams moved over to PGF.

You mention driving is an advantage. If that is the case, then you would be making the argument for hosting of the tournament to be in CA. Typically 30 of 130 teams are from CA. Next closest would be IL with 16 teams. Considering driving, tournaments hosted in TX, CA, IL, GA make the most sense. Hosting in TN, IN, or SD makes no sense.

For me, it makes no sense not to have tournaments with 1 hour of a major airport. Houston, St. Louis, Chicago, LA, Atlanta, Charleston, Indianapolis, Cincinnati, Dallas, OKC, Denver, etc.

Everyone at PGF is actually past supporters of ASA, and most would happily return to supporting ASA, if ASA was somewhat reasonable in the hosting of their tournaments. As you have seen on this forum ASA has not been willing to look at any of these aspects of ASA tournament hosting.

[AlwaysImprove]

There is no waiver procedure for either PGF or ASA that i am aware of. If you play in ASA tourneys, you MUST REGISTER each player with ASA, that registration includes the insurance. It doesnt matter what personal coverage you have.


The coverage is excellent in that it is your secondary coverage if your kid gets hurt. It is simple to do and is easily worth the money. If you dont have personal coverage, the Bollinger policy becomes your primary. But there is no waiver. You need to register each player with ASA and the coverage is part of that procedure.

I was not talking about wavering out of insurance all together. We have played NSA using ASA insurance, seen other teams playing ASA using NSA insurance. It always started with an email.

BTW, FWIW Adult leagues can buy a "Wavier and Release" plan for a lower premium.
http://www.bollingerasa.com/site/faqs-for-teams.aspx

[Battle]

Do you not go to Colorado for the June/July TCS events because of their lodging requirements?

We spent about the same for the Colorado trip as with ASA Nats. I don't like being forced to stay in their hotels either. Did you have to show proof of residence if you wasn't staying in a hotel at PGF because I asked that once and never got an answer?

I may want to make other arrangements as to where I stay and being forced to stay somewhere because a sanction wants to keep costs down for ump's rooms...etc...just doesn't set well. I assure you that I didn't pay 100 dollars a night at Colorado or ASA and rooms were nice at both.