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So, how many of you out there are Bernie supporters?

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Keep it reasonable.

by as the world turns » Thu May 05, 2016 1:57 pm

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by Sam » Mon May 09, 2016 6:20 am

Only a week after Cruz and Kasich withdraw, Trump:

1) is open to raising the minimum wage, and
2) is going to raise taxes

That isn't moving to the center....that is moving to the left. This was the con of the century. Next thing he'll be saying that the wall on the Mexican border was a euphemism.
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by Blind Squirrel » Mon May 09, 2016 11:48 am

Skarp wrote:

I've been predicting a Trump landslide since July, and I've been watching all of these pundits make complete fools out of themselves ever since. Still taking all bets.


I'll take that bet. In fact it wouldn't surprise me if Trump quits the race when he gets too frustrated.

The American public might consider whether electing an "outsider" can accomplish their goals or does "the system" need to be changed. Maybe the problem isn't that bad people keep getting elected. Maybe the problem is due in no small part to the system and it's affect on those elected. Of course that is a moot point for obvious reasons. The electorate will continue to periodically manifest enthusiastic support despite repeated experiences (e.g., Arnold in CA) where they fell prey to the fallacies of hope in "outsiders"and were let down.

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by fastpitchdad05 » Mon May 09, 2016 2:04 pm

Blind Squirrel wrote:
Skarp wrote:

I've been predicting a Trump landslide since July, and I've been watching all of these pundits make complete fools out of themselves ever since. Still taking all bets.


I'll take that bet. In fact it wouldn't surprise me if Trump quits the race when he gets too frustrated.

The American public might consider whether electing an "outsider" can accomplish their goals or does "the system" need to be changed. Maybe the problem isn't that bad people keep getting elected. Maybe the problem is due in no small part to the system and it's affect on those elected. Of course that is a moot point for obvious reasons. The electorate will continue to periodically manifest enthusiastic support despite repeated experiences (e.g., Arnold in CA) where they fell prey to the fallacies of hope in "outsiders"and were let down.

Lord of the Fries Squirrel (Asian relative of Blind Idiot)


Interesting point, Senor Squirrel. I told a lot of my friends when Trump first announced his candidacy that it was a PR stunt and/or he'd quit before or soon after he got elected when he realized just how much work was involved and that he couldn't just jet off to Aruba with his wife du jour anytime he felt like it. I don't think Trump himself ever imagined it would get this far, but it just goes to show you how desperate and confused a lot of people have become.

I've also been saying for several years now that the two-party dominated system is dividing and destroying the country. The damage done to that system is one of the only pluses to Trump's candidacy.

Trump is doing now exactly what he's been doing the whole time...telling people what they want to hear. The only difference is now he has to try and convince a different group than the sheeple he's been preaching to that he has something legitimate to offer. He's gambling that he can move left a little and still have the far right under his spell.

The other issue for me is that Hillary will be running against him and I want to puke every time I see her insincere, maniacally smiling face on the tele.

I would actually take a hard look at 3rd candidate (if they were viably capable of winning) if one entered late.

I also love what Sam said about Trump eventually declaring the wall idea as being a euphemism. Wouldn't surprise me one bit.

No matter who wins I don't see a very promising 4 years ahead of us. But I'm not the knee-jerk reaction kind that says, "I'm moving if 'fill-in-the-blank' is elected!" To me that's an extreme overreaction.
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by Skarp » Wed May 11, 2016 12:21 pm

Sam wrote:Only a week after Cruz and Kasich withdraw, Trump:

1) is open to raising the minimum wage, and
2) is going to raise taxes

That isn't moving to the center....that is moving to the left. This was the con of the century. Next thing he'll be saying that the wall on the Mexican border was a euphemism.

1) thinks minimum wages, if any, should be set by individual states in a competitive market;
2) says he is lowering taxes for ALL groups, but that legislative negotiations may result in a smaller cut (than originally proposed) for the very wealthy.

If you're so right about Trump, why do you have to make things up?

And give me a break about the wall. Without Trump we wouldn't even be talking about a wall...or anchor babies, or trade, or Islamic refugee resettlement, or a host of other issues that now dominate our political discourse.
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by Skarp » Wed May 11, 2016 12:38 pm

Blind Squirrel wrote:
Skarp wrote:I've been predicting a Trump landslide since July, and I've been watching all of these pundits make complete fools out of themselves ever since. Still taking all bets.


I'll take that bet. In fact it wouldn't surprise me if Trump quits the race when he gets too frustrated.

Trump has been subjected to more ridicule and mischaracterization (from all sides) than any candidate in history. Yet he has continued to make himself available for constant interrogation and scrutiny for the entirety of his campaign. His work ethic and self-belief are superhuman. Frustration? Trump runs toward the fire, not away from it.

Trump will beat Clinton. Name your wager and consider it covered.
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by Tyler Durden » Wed May 11, 2016 1:34 pm

Skarp wrote:
Sam wrote:Only a week after Cruz and Kasich withdraw, Trump:

1) is open to raising the minimum wage, and
2) is going to raise taxes

That isn't moving to the center....that is moving to the left. This was the con of the century. Next thing he'll be saying that the wall on the Mexican border was a euphemism.


1) thinks minimum wages, if any, should be set by individual states in a competitive market;
2) says he is lowering taxes for ALL groups, but that legislative negotiations may result in a smaller cut (than originally proposed) for the very wealthy.

If you're so right about Trump, why do you have to make things up?

And give me a break about the wall. Without Trump we wouldn't even be talking about a wall...or anchor babies, or trade, or Islamic refugee resettlement, or a host of other issues that now dominate our political discourse.


Skarp has been nailing the Trump movement from inception. Your #1 and #2 are exactly correct. Beautiful work, and I couldn't agree more. Carry on young man.
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by Sam » Wed May 11, 2016 2:19 pm

Skarp wrote:
Sam wrote:Only a week after Cruz and Kasich withdraw, Trump:

1) is open to raising the minimum wage, and
2) is going to raise taxes

That isn't moving to the center....that is moving to the left. This was the con of the century. Next thing he'll be saying that the wall on the Mexican border was a euphemism.

1) thinks minimum wages, if any, should be set by individual states in a competitive market;
2) says he is lowering taxes for ALL groups, but that legislative negotiations may result in a smaller cut (than originally proposed) for the very wealthy.

If you're so right about Trump, why do you have to make things up?

And give me a break about the wall. Without Trump we wouldn't even be talking about a wall...or anchor babies, or trade, or Islamic refugee resettlement, or a host of other issues that now dominate our political discourse.


The problem is that Trump talks....and when he is called on what he actually says, he has to walk back his "mistakes." Your version of what he says occurred AFTER he found out he had to walk back earlier statements.

If you are saying that Trump is all talk, I guess I would have to agree.
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by Skarp » Wed May 11, 2016 2:51 pm

Sam wrote:The problem is that Trump talks....and when he is called on what he actually says, he has to walk back his "mistakes." Your version of what he says occurred AFTER he found out he had to walk back earlier statements.

If you are saying that Trump is all talk, I guess I would have to agree.

Yes, Trump does talk. A lot. Without pollsters coaching his every utterance. So it's very easy for those so-inclined to take his statements, or parts of his statements, or parts of his sentences even, decontextualize them, and plug them into whatever nonsensical narrative serves their purpose. Anyone who has actually listened to Trump knows that he is big on the 10th Amendment (return power to the states and the people), and that his tax plan calls for monumental tax cuts across all income brackets, as well as for corporations. He has been 100% consistent on both of these. So when he says that minimum wage increases might make sense, or when he says that the wealthy might pay more in taxes, it is within that larger context that he is saying it.

If Trump says something 99 times one way, and 1 time another seemingly contradictory way followed by an immediate explanation that comports with the other 99, it strains credulity to claim that his actual position is in line with the 1. Trump only has to "walk back" remarks to counter the "gotcha" journalism that you seem to find so persuasive.
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by PDad » Wed May 11, 2016 2:56 pm

Sam wrote:
Skarp wrote:1) thinks minimum wages, if any, should be set by individual states in a competitive market;
2) says he is lowering taxes for ALL groups, but that legislative negotiations may result in a smaller cut (than originally proposed) for the very wealthy.

The problem is that Trump talks....and when he is called on what he actually says, he has to walk back his "mistakes." Your version of what he says occurred AFTER he found out he had to walk back earlier statements.

There's also Trump's meandering, stream-of-consciousness style of answering a question,
1) Trump's initial response indicated both an openness to raising the Fed MW and a preference for it to be done at the state level.

2) Trump's answer on ABC's This Week indicated his proposal was a starting point for negotiations, he'd give on the upper end and said he's willing to pay more taxes. George questioned his willingness to pay more taxes and Trump doubled-down on it. Apparently he did the same thing on NBC's Meet the Press. As Sam says, he walked it back afterward.
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