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So, how many of you out there are Bernie supporters?

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by Skarp » Tue May 03, 2016 3:46 pm

aparent wrote:
jtat32 wrote:
aparent wrote: I am a liberal, not the co-opted version of the term that has come to mean eating vegan and giving handouts, but in the classical sense of believing that people should be free to do whatever the hell they want unless they start adversely affecting others.


It's interesting that you phrase your definition that way - that would be my definition of what conservatism should be in the classic sense.


In a classic sense, conservatism would have us still living under kings, by definition conservatives have always favored the status quo and liberals have pushed for change and more specifically equality and freedom for all. By classical I am talking Enlightenment era stuff here. Somewhere along the lines there was a bit of a switch both in the terminology and in the alignment of parties. it is so fubared now that both parties have liberal (change) and conservative (status quo) wings. I would say that people that favor a very limited government are actually taking a liberal stance because it lends itself to personal freedom and the government has been so overactive for such a long time that it is now the status quo but I think most would characterize this as a conservative principle.

We have a majority of Americans that think they disagree with each other because they differ on 5% of the issues and because they self identify as either CONSERVATIVE or LIBERAL. In reality I think the vast majority of us agree on most things. MOST Americans favor a strong military that is seldom used, MOST Americans think heath care should be easier and less expensive, MOST Americans think we should have the choice of where to send our kids to school and that school should focus on basics like MATH, SCIENCE and ENGLISH, MOST Americans do not want a political system that gives undo access to the wealthy donor class, MOST Americans believe we have a constitutional right to bear arms, MOST Americans think that Employers should not have the ability to hire/fire based on race, religion, or sexual preference. MOST Americans have no problem paying reasonable taxes as long as the money is spent wisely, ALL Americans hate their cable company. The list goes on and on. We get divided up over stupid, fake issues like whether or not a man who thinks he is a woman can used a ladies restroom, or whether or not a man can marry a man, Meanwhile our streets are crumbling, our taxes are outrageous, the middle class is disappearing and a college education is becoming harder and harder to achieve.

We are so f*cked in the head that the term "islamic terrorist" is not used by an entire party because they are so PC brainwashed that they think that any mention of anything that classifies people is somehow dangerous. The same people who can't bring themselves to say Merry Christmas and have to say happy holidays. Then we have a separate group on the other side that wants to tell people who they can love and tell people it is OK to take Ambien but if you take medicinal marijuana you are a druggie.

Guns N Roses had a song a long time back called "one in a million" that kind of describes how I feel, i want the tree hugging, Prius drivers to all disappear and have them closely followed by the holier than thou religious right, maybe when the fringe parts of both parties stop trying to make everyone believe what they believe then the 80% of sensible people in the middle can improve things. But as long as the Dems need the thought police wing to win and the GOP needs the bible thumpers to win then we will always have this screwed up situation.

These are the same people that watch an NBA game and still think white people and black people have the same athletic ability.

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by Skarp » Tue May 03, 2016 3:48 pm

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/

For those who want to follow the carnage at Cruz's Alamo real-time.
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by PDad » Tue May 03, 2016 4:24 pm

aparent wrote:In a classic sense, conservatism would have us still living under kings, by definition conservatives have always favored the status quo and liberals have pushed for change and more specifically equality and freedom for all. By classical I am talking Enlightenment era stuff here. Somewhere along the lines there was a bit of a switch both in the terminology and in the alignment of parties. it is so fubared now that both parties have liberal (change) and conservative (status quo) wings. I would say that people that favor a very limited government are actually taking a liberal stance because it lends itself to personal freedom and the government has been so overactive for such a long time that it is now the status quo but I think most would characterize this as a conservative principle.

I also used to wonder why people wanting personal freedom were considered Conservatives rather than Liberals. My conclusion is current conservative/liberal is more about one's belief about the role/size of government (i.e. fiscal) - Conservatives want to restrain it and Liberals want to expand it. Resistance to changes in traditional values (i.e. social) is often a trait of Conservatives, so it is also considered conservative.

I now look at it in those 2 dimensions - the x-axis being fiscal and the y-axis being social. GOP is largely in the upper-right quadrant with the far-right wing in the upper-right corner. Dems are largely in the lower-left quadrant with the far-left wing in the lower-left corner. Libertarians are in the lower-right quadrant. I can't think of a major group that is fiscally liberal and socially conservative, however they would be in the upper-left quadrant.
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by Sam » Wed May 04, 2016 6:49 am

Skarp wrote:
Sam wrote:
....but the Donald IS a man for the people.....that is hilarious. Donald is a man for himself and only himself at all times. He's not going to tear down the establishment because he IS the establishment....on both sides. He pays whomever he needs in order to get what he wants. You call that running a business and creating jobs. I call it using the system for his own personal gain. He didn't give a crap about the people when he used imminent domain. He has never done a thing in life with the purpose of helping people....other than himself.

Actually it takes a 3/5 majority to invoke cloture and Cruz voted against cloture:

"The 60-37 vote all but ensures the passage of legislation that will allow Obama to "fast-track" the trade pacts he negotiates through Congress, preventing filibusters or amendments. Liberals have long assailed Obama's trade agenda, but Republicans successfully wooed a bloc of Democrats led by Sen. Patty Murray (D-Wash.) and Ron Wyden (D-Ore.) to secure enough votes to overcome a filibuster.

With the 60-vote threshold cleared, the path is now open for the Senate to take a final vote on the legislation on Wednesday.

The fate of the bill, also known as Trade Promotion Authority, hinged on whether backers of the fast-track legislation could win over Democratic Sens. Maria Cantwell (Wash.), Heidi Heitkamp (N.D.) and Chris Coons (Del.). All three remained mum as to their intentions before the vote, with Coons lambasting the Senate on his way to the chamber for taking up a free trade vote while at the same time letting financing for exports, through the Export-Import Bank, lapse. It wasn't enough to sway his vote, though, as all three voted to move forward.

The vote came down to the wire, thanks to an eleventh-hour reversal by Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Texas), who announced his opposition in a bombastic op-ed for Breitbart News that sent Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) scrambling for additional Democratic support."


Sessions is a traitor to the conservatives for his support of Trump, who stands for nothing. He will regret his support as soon as Trump walks over to Harry Reid and negotiates on anything and everything he has stated he would do in the campaign. He's donated to Dirty Harry's campaigns so it should be fairly easy.

Reagan's detractors were democrats. Reagan stood up for his principles. Trump is only saying what he thinks people want to hear in order get elected. Hitler was also a populist.

Well let's see.

Here's an op ed by Cruz and Paul Ryan on their support for TPA:
http://www.wsj.com/articles/putting-con ... D5_GN6TckA

And here's Cruz on video explaining his support for same. If you want to understand the legislative shenanigans employed, the article is worth reading as well.
https://theconservativetreehouse.com/20 ... ith-video/

Reagan's detractors were democrats? How about George Will?
https://www.conservativereview.com/comm ... gop-divide

Or the rest of the Republican establishment?
http://spectator.org/articles/39417/ori ... ald-reagan

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government ... blishment/

Your comments about Trump lack any objective basis whatsoever. You know what's in Trump's heart, do you? How? You conclude that he has no intention of doing any of the things he says he wants to do--essentially that this whole enterprise is one giant multi-million dollar boondoggle--for what, pray tell? If he's a big liberal, or if he lacks a moral compass at all, why not run as a Dem against the most unpalatable field of candidates in a generation? Why take on "the deepest bench in history" on the Republican side? That doesn't add up at all.

It's telling that you believe that starting a business and growing it into an international behemoth constitutes never having done anything to help anyone other than himself. Hey, throw your support to Bernie then. He honeymooned in the Soviet Union and then dedicated his life to "service."

I'll take a 1% chance that Trump will do a fraction of the things that he says he will do over the 100% certainty that neither Ted Cruz nor any of the other people running will do anything at all to right this sinking ship. If he builds a wall and enforces our immigration laws and doesn't do anything else, reserve a spot for him on Mt. Rushmore in my book. But I think that Trump wants a spot on Mt. Rushmore for real. Which means he's going to work his ass off to solve the problems of this country. Which means he's going to do exactly what he says he's going to do.

We'll find out. It's on to the general. Lyin' Cruz is dead, and Crooked Hillary is next.



Trump "started" his business from a substantial inheritance, so....no.....I don't equate that with a person who invests their hard EARNED money in their own business. Equally interesting that you would support a guy who has used imminent domain to line his own pockets.

Its all moot anyway. Hillary will destroy him in the general. All these media outlets whom have conspired to hand the Republican nomination to Trump will now reveal their true support for Clinton and they will unleash all the Trump dirt they have been holding back.....and if they don't have it now, the Clinton machine will make sure they get it.

I think we are both conservatives. I have never voted for anyone other than a Republican. I may just write in Skarp on my ballot.
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by exD1dad » Wed May 04, 2016 11:30 am

Hey Skarp I worked in Trump Tower at a Wine/Tea/Crumpet Bar where Ivanna was my my boss in the late '80's. At the same time on my Coed softball team in the Broadway Show League was ....Marla Maples 8-)

Starting last year & working with a long time friend (Sr Media Consultant for Herman Cain) we pursued Trump & considered starting a Super PAC to cash in, little did we know he'd rely on MSM but
TrumpTV.rocks & https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLLHWh0 ... load_owner are still around
"It's not giving up if you discover you've been chasing the wrong destiny" -Morley LA street artist who posted this on Melrose Avenue in Jan '14
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by as the world turns » Wed May 04, 2016 12:51 pm

“Life is hard; it's harder if you're stupid.” John Wayne
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by Skarp » Wed May 04, 2016 3:23 pm

Sam wrote:Trump "started" his business from a substantial inheritance, so....no.....I don't equate that with a person who invests their hard EARNED money in their own business. Equally interesting that you would support a guy who has used imminent domain to line his own pockets.

Its all moot anyway. Hillary will destroy him in the general. All these media outlets whom have conspired to hand the Republican nomination to Trump will now reveal their true support for Clinton and they will unleash all the Trump dirt they have been holding back.....and if they don't have it now, the Clinton machine will make sure they get it.

I think we are both conservatives. I have never voted for anyone other than a Republican. I may just write in Skarp on my ballot.

Trump borrowed a million dollars from his dad and has since increased it a ten-thousand-fold. He currently employs tens of thousands of people. The stories of his quiet generosity (e.g., paying off the mortgage of a couple who helped him when his car broke down) are legion. But he's never done anything to help anyone? Okay.

Media outlets have conspired...media is withholding dirt...lulz. There has never been a primary candidate in the history of American politics subjected to more scrutiny and vicious attacks from all sides than Donald Trump. Period. 65,000 negative ads. Scathing commentary from MSM pundits night and day. Scathing commentary from almost every conservative radio personality, day after day. His obituary was written more times than I could count. Yet he's stronger now than he has ever been.

The last person in the world Hillary wants to run against is Trump. He has rendered the Alinsky playbook obsolete. Call him a racist or a sexist and he doesn't fall all over himself trying to apologize or explain like every other panty-waist politician. He punches you in the mouth instead. Trump stays on offense, always. Hillary is in for a long 6 months.

I've been predicting a Trump landslide since July, and I've been watching all of these pundits make complete fools out of themselves ever since. Still taking all bets.
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by Skarp » Wed May 04, 2016 3:38 pm

exD1dad wrote:Hey Skarp I worked in Trump Tower at a Wine/Tea/Crumpet Bar where Ivanna was my my boss in the late '80's. At the same time on my Coed softball team in the Broadway Show League was ....Marla Maples 8-)

Starting last year & working with a long time friend (Sr Media Consultant for Herman Cain) we pursued Trump & considered starting a Super PAC to cash in, little did we know he'd rely on MSM but
TrumpTV.rocks & https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLLHWh0 ... load_owner are still around

Nice. I'm out at Trump National for brunch most Sundays just to give him my business.
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by Skarp » Wed May 04, 2016 3:46 pm

ChnzxKRUUAAPy4S.jpg
ChnzxKRUUAAPy4S.jpg (45.57 KiB) Viewed 4258 times
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by as the world turns » Wed May 04, 2016 8:23 pm

Skarp wrote:
ChnzxKRUUAAPy4S.jpg


I think you have violated Heybucket's safe space policy - that picture really offends me, it made me pee my pants.
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