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More info on the peaceful religion

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by aparent » Sat Aug 22, 2015 7:57 am

jonriv wrote:
aparent wrote:I read quite a bit, I don't come to positions like this lightly. Speaking of stereotypes, you assumed that this is based on bigotry and it is not, this is not cultural, this is a firm belief that a doctrine that teaches the things that Islam does is simply wrong. So yes, I have read enough of the beliefs of the religion, looked at enough studies, seen enough carnage to be comfortable that I have given a fair shake to Islam. I spent most of my life believing all religions are equal and that Islam is misunderstood, but time and again something horrific happens and the perpetrators are muslim.

So you can compare it to the Spanish inquisition, that is actually pretty accurate, but that was what 500 years ago? Why has Christianity moved past the "killing for religion" phase and Islam is still mired in it? I think it is because the TEACHINGS of Christ and the TEACHINGS of Mohammed are two entirely different things.

so you want studies, there are two major ones I read when I looked into this...one if from the PEW research center..

http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-overview/

I forget the other one but i will try to find it, it had polls of world wide muslims and asked specific questions about beliefs on stoning, beheading etc and the results were frightening.

Perhaps you should actually read the entire article you cite? It actually contradicts your hypothesis


I don't think so. I think it supports everything I have been saying quite well.

I am sure you are referring to the part where Muslims are asked if they support bombing (I think it was specifically suicide bombing but I may recall incorrectly) in defense of Islam and most of them say "rarely or never". Think about that. why would rarely and never be lumped together in the results? Shouldn't this be NEVER?

two things to think about here, what is defense of Islam? I see a very broad interpretation of what is considered OFFENSE to Islam, a book (Satanic Verses), cartoons. Etc. So when we are asked about defense of America for instance, we interpret it as say a country invading us or some other reason that would truly endanger our well being. they interpret it as someone SAYING something that offends Mohammed or their faith. so it is equivalent to me saying I rarely get in fights when offended, I only fight 1 time a day and I am offended 100 times a day. Yeah....1 out of 100 is rare but that is still a pretty high frequency of fights.

The other thing to think about is why lump rare and never together. Is it perhaps because the RARE response was quite high and would paint a far different picture if graphed? Picture your response if you say that thise graphs were 5-never, 85- rarely and 10-often?

So thanks for the encouragement to read....I return it with an encouragement to think.
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by aparent » Sat Aug 22, 2015 7:59 am

Jonriv- Any comments on the high support for stoning? Or the other abhorrent beliefs that have very high support among Muslims?
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by as the world turns » Sat Aug 22, 2015 9:36 am

Truth-about-Islam1.png
Truth-about-Islam1.png (179.94 KiB) Viewed 6438 times

Religion by force - and that's the truth
“Life is hard; it's harder if you're stupid.” John Wayne
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by jonriv » Sat Aug 22, 2015 11:37 am

aparent wrote:Jonriv- Any comments on the high support for stoning? Or the other abhorrent beliefs that have very high support among Muslims?



The high support is among Moslems currently living under sharia law which is the vast minority of muslims(read the article). That's like asking Americans who live in a dry county if they support a ban on alcohol and then using those results to determine the vast majority of Americans support it


As for your argument th Spanish Inquisition was 500 years ago- sin ce islam is 500 years younger(behind) Christianity it kinds of make sense. Many historians equate the current period in Islam with the Middle Ages with christianity
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by aparent » Sat Aug 22, 2015 12:36 pm

I don't think you can use a linear time scale like that and say that the period say from 1000 ad to 1500 ad is equivalent to 1500-2000 and since Islam was founded after Christianity that they have some sort of grace period of growth. I think the barbarity of the dark ages was a function of the times in general and of overall human development, Islam has had plenty of time to grow up. So I don't buy that excuse.

I'll have to look at it again to see your point about the sizes of those supporting things like stoning etc. I remember thinking that if you took the various ratios of Muslims to non Muslims and those living under Sharia into account etc that you still came out with a frightening number of general muslim people who thought it was a good idea.

As for the idea that this is a dark age period of Islam, I don't buy that. The Christian dark ages were characterized by the power structure acting in direct opposition to Christ's teaching. I doubt he would have sanctioned the inquisition , for instance, considering he was a Jew and all.

what Islam is doing today is BASED on Mohammed's teachings, his revelation from Allah has very specific things about killing infidels, taking slaves from infidels, stoning adulterers, death to apostates etc. I would say that both religions are on the same timeline and both are getting more in line with their founder's teachings- and that is why you see modern day Christians involved in many more good works and musilms engaged in a holy war against the world.

what I do not understand is how this religion can claim Christ as one of it's prophets and then have a whole set of ideas that run completely counter to His teachings.
or why we even need a third prophet of God? weren't Moses and Jesus enough? did God forget so much that he needed to take 30 years to slowly dictate the rest of his teachings to a crazy man in a cave who liked to have sex with little girls(look it up)?

so God just kept saying "oh...another thing I forgot to tell Moses and Jesus was that after you conquer the infidels, do not ague over the slaves, but share them equally amongst you Muslim brethren...make sure to tell him that Gabriel" and he just kept remembering things for 30 years like this?

or is it more plausible that once this pedophilic madman realized he was on to something he would just make up a new revelation to fit his needs. Milk it baby milk it. Kind of like when I play monopoly with my overly competitive daughter and she makes up rules like "purple properties are double rent". Mohammed wasn't a prophet, he was a petulant child.

PS. Is Muslims ran this country I would be writing all of this from the grave.

Drop the mike
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by fastpitchdad05 » Sat Aug 22, 2015 1:29 pm

aparent wrote:I don't think you can use a linear time scale like that and say that the period say from 1000 ad to 1500 ad is equivalent to 1500-2000 and since Islam was founded after Christianity that they have some sort of grace period of growth. I think the barbarity of the dark ages was a function of the times in general and of overall human development, Islam has had plenty of time to grow up. So I don't buy that excuse.

I'll have to look at it again to see your point about the sizes of those supporting things like stoning etc. I remember thinking that if you took the various ratios of Muslims to non Muslims and those living under Sharia into account etc that you still came out with a frightening number of general muslim people who thought it was a good idea.

As for the idea that this is a dark age period of Islam, I don't buy that. The Christian dark ages were characterized by the power structure acting in direct opposition to Christ's teaching. I doubt he would have sanctioned the inquisition , for instance, considering he was a Jew and all.

what Islam is doing today is BASED on Mohammed's teachings, his revelation from Allah has very specific things about killing infidels, taking slaves from infidels, stoning adulterers, death to apostates etc. I would say that both religions are on the same timeline and both are getting more in line with their founder's teachings- and that is why you see modern day Christians involved in many more good works and musilms engaged in a holy war against the world.

what I do not understand is how this religion can claim Christ as one of it's prophets and then have a whole set of ideas that run completely counter to His teachings.
or why we even need a third prophet of God? weren't Moses and Jesus enough? did God forget so much that he needed to take 30 years to slowly dictate the rest of his teachings to a crazy man in a cave who liked to have sex with little girls(look it up)?

so God just kept saying "oh...another thing I forgot to tell Moses and Jesus was that after you conquer the infidels, do not ague over the slaves, but share them equally amongst you Muslim brethren...make sure to tell him that Gabriel" and he just kept remembering things for 30 years like this?

or is it more plausible that once this pedophilic madman realized he was on to something he would just make up a new revelation to fit his needs. Milk it baby milk it. Kind of like when I play monopoly with my overly competitive daughter and she makes up rules like "purple properties are double rent". Mohammed wasn't a prophet, he was a petulant child.

PS. Is Muslims ran this country I would be writing all of this from the grave.

Drop the mike


Don't drop Mike...he's on your side.

So presuming you're right, what should be done about all this? Or do you just have opinions on what shouldn't be done?

According to what I've found on the interweb there's only been one act of terrorism on American soil this year so it looks like we are headed in the right direction here at home.
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by aparent » Sat Aug 22, 2015 2:35 pm

I had a great answer to you Pdad but my browser crashed and I am too lazy to retype it.

I'll sum it up as saying that more people should look into Islamic teachings and decide for themselves if they think it is a peaceful religion. and then everyone should be free to voice their thoughts without fear of being labelled a bigot. So education and free expression are a great place to start. I am a believer that bad things flourish in the dark and that once people are truly aware of injustices then they act more.

I think a huge burden falls on those who claim to be good Muslims to establish a flourishing reformation of their religion that denounces, with no equivocation, the teachings of their prophet that is at odds with human rights.
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by fastpitchdad05 » Sat Aug 22, 2015 2:56 pm

aparent wrote:I had a great answer to you Pdad but my browser crashed and I am too lazy to retype it.

I'll sum it up as saying that more people should look into Islamic teachings and decide for themselves if they think it is a peaceful religion. and then everyone should be free to voice their thoughts without fear of being labelled a bigot. So education and free expression are a great place to start. I am a believer that bad things flourish in the dark and that once people are truly aware of injustices then they act more.

I think a huge burden falls on those who claim to be good Muslims to establish a flourishing reformation of their religion that denounces, with no equivocation, the teachings of their prophet that is at odds with human rights.


Perhaps it was God's will that your browser crashed. :D

BTW I'm not PDad...he's at least 100 times smarter than I am, and I'm not just talking about the subject of organized religion. :?
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by aparent » Sat Aug 22, 2015 3:10 pm

All you guys with dad in your handles kind of run together on me. My bad.
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by fastpitchdad05 » Sat Aug 22, 2015 3:19 pm

aparent wrote:All you guys with dad in your handles kind of run together on me. My bad.


That was apparent.

Rimshot!

(Despite the organized protests) "He's here all week, ladies and germs!"
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