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by Tyler Durden » Wed Sep 17, 2014 12:27 pm

jonriv wrote:The problem with isolationism is that it usually allows the problem to spread. Those problems over there do have an impact on us here usually financially and worse. Some of the countries you mentioned should not come under the parasite title. The uk and Canada have supplied troops etc on many an occasion. We are also the only country in the world with any real ability to project power and we should continue as long as it is within our interests. I do agree that the countries in the area and Europe need to carry more of their share, especially since it is in their interest and has more of an effect on them. I do think that ISIS presents a clear and present danger to the US and I would much prefer to use it over there

The US military has always been used for humanitarian aid through several administrations. Again it is the only organization with the air/ sealift ability and the infrastructure to get things done efficiently and quickly

I am not in favor of using the military to try to seal our southern border. It is a mission they are not trained for and it is a poor use a resource. Most military leaders want no part of that mission. I am in favor of deploying the correct resources and giving those resources the tools and manpower it needs-the border patrol(perhaps with the backing of the coast guard) would be much better suited for what is coming across now.


Jonbovi. I wish you could disagree with someone's point without holding court and saying the obvious. Of course a policy of Isolationism would allow the shit happening in other parts of the world to spread. We are the only ones slowing it down. "Those problems over there do have an impact on us here usually financially and worse"......Really Doctor, you think so? (Shout out to Boogie Nights)
UK and Canada troops are weak and worthless, just for show. And time for Saudi Arabia, Jordan, and the other worthless oil states to step up? That time came and went.
My OP is that enough is enough, time to let them take care of themselves. Of course there will be ramifications of Isolationism that hurt our country. IMO those are less damaging than a never-ending babysitting mission. No more humanitarian aid from the USA. All the other freeloaders can pick up that slack. Borders get closed until we get a handle on the mess that is the infrastructure of this country.
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by Tyler Durden » Wed Sep 17, 2014 12:30 pm

jonriv wrote:
Blind Squirrel wrote:The problem will surely spread. Good. Eventually it will start threatening the stable countries with their own air forces and ground troops. And then the fighting will continue for decades. (Kind of like the way it has been for centuries.) But it will be their men and women dying, not our fathers and mothers and daughters and sons and sisters and brothers. It won't be our loved ones walking around maimed/crippled for the rest of their lives. And I certainly place a higher value on that then I do the potential economic affects which I'm far from convinced would be so significant that the two considerations would enjoy anything close to parity.

At some point it becomes time to kick the 30 year old slacker the Hell out of the house so he has to be a man, get a freaking job and fend for himself. And fend he will if forced to.


That was kind of our policy following ww1, we wound up with a Great Depression and a Second World War. I certainly agree that more of it needs to be done by others, but someone has to lead. Ignoring the problem won't make it go away, probably just make it worse. I would rather fight small actions than some greater conflict. We need to push hard to our allies in the area and to others in the region that they need to do something. Let them know we will help, we will support and even intervene when needed, but they need to be in there. That's why I like the Kurds, they are willing to fight their fight, just ask for our help. It is time for the Egyptians, Jordanians, Saudis and especially the Turks to get to work

Btw if turkey is attacked, we are bound by treaty as is the rest of NATO to jump in


Totally incorrect. And IMO Turkey can defend themselves for a change. Time to withdraw from NATO. What happened to that hard-charging Ottoman Empire get er done mindset they used to have?
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by Pale Rider » Wed Sep 17, 2014 12:43 pm

Gratuitous Shout out...having been around both...Most Brits are hardcore...and EVERY Canadian troop I've been around is bad ass...
Thing about using the other Middle Eastern (Muslim) countries...they're afraid of starting crap in their home countries...
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by jonriv » Wed Sep 17, 2014 12:51 pm

I would also add the Australians are bad ass


Germans are good to but their constitution(which we mad them adopt) forbids sending troops outside their borders

And yes Tyler, isolationism was a major cause of both the Great Depression and wwii(I'm on an iphone, please don't make me write out all the specifics) :D
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by Tyler Durden » Wed Sep 17, 2014 12:54 pm

Pale Rider wrote:Gratuitous Shout out...having been around both...Most Brits are hardcore...and EVERY Canadian troop I've been around is bad ass...
Thing about using the other Middle Eastern (Muslim) countries...they're afraid of starting crap in their home countries...


Agreed that the individual UK and Canadian soldier is awesome. I was trying to say that, as a whole, their respective armed forces don't get it done. btw are you saying that my shout out to Boogie nights was gratuitous?
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by jonriv » Wed Sep 17, 2014 1:16 pm

http://www.globalfirepower.com/countries-listing.asp

A ranking of global military power, some interesting observations

My own dealing with some foreign troops. The Brits were outstanding, I have worked with units from their "Guards" division (these are the same one's that Guard the palace) They wer top notch. I have also trained with a soldier from Egypts Tiger Brigade, he was also strac. I was taught by an Australian SGT Majo at Ft Benning, top notch. The Saudi soldiers II worked with were lazy pieces of entitled garbage that did not want to carry their own ruck sacks
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by Tyler Durden » Wed Sep 17, 2014 2:02 pm

Blind Squirrel wrote:The problem will surely spread. Good. Eventually it will start threatening the stable countries with their own air forces and ground troops. And then the fighting will continue for decades. (Kind of like the way it has been for centuries.) But it will be their men and women dying, not our fathers and mothers and daughters and sons and sisters and brothers. It won't be our loved ones walking around maimed/crippled for the rest of their lives. And I certainly place a higher value on that then I do the potential economic affects which I'm far from convinced would be so significant that the two considerations would enjoy anything close to parity.

At some point it becomes time to kick the 30 year old slacker the Hell out of the house so he has to be a man, get a freaking job and fend for himself. And fend he will if forced to.


Agreed.
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by Pale Rider » Wed Sep 17, 2014 3:36 pm

Dude...I 'lived' Boogie Nights ;)

Agreed about Saudi troops...especially officers
Told one, one time where he could stick his position, and if he liked I'd be happy to place it there...
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