Freedom of Information

[jonriv]

BW

There is a big difference between casual use and distribution- perhaps you should get a clue. Even "enlightened" countries(on drugs) like The netherlands and Switzerland recognize this

You seem to also forget that what brought about the war on drugs and the prison explosion was a massive increase in violent crimes. Perhaps you forget what the 70's were like ??? You seem to think this all happened in a vacuume. Did you ever go through times square in NY in the 70s & 80s???


Do I think the war on Drugs was a success- no not really

Should ther be a change in some of the lesser (non-violent) usage and possession laws- yes

Was this some conspiracy by the governement to control our lives -no

There was a huge surge of violent crimes over a long period of time- I do not think it was a coincidnce that when we put more people in jail those crime rates went down

[exD1dad]

JonRiv I lived @ 45th & 10th Ave (Hell's Kitchen) in NYC in the late '80's & got off the subway daily @ Times Square & you're being so overly dramatic you should be doing dinner theater with a bunch of drag queens

IMO you should use a different point of reference (when pontificating about the crack epidemic) because ALL NYers who live in Manhattan laugh at the "Bridge & Tunnel" crowd that you are a part of, well not the drug dealers because your friends, co workers & their children were all their customers back then! FYI: I found that neighborhood just as safe as any other in the borough.

[Battle]

Battle I am certainly not righteous. I actually agree that first time offendors(with some exceptions) should not have the book thrown at them and have a felony hang over the like some scarlet letter. However, my experience has been(at least here in CT and NY where I grew up) most times simple possesions are plead down to misdemeanors- many were givene several chances. The only one I new that got hit hard on a posseion for a first time was a guy I knew in college, but he had a peat moss size bag of pot in his trunk(and was passing a bong in his car with friends driving down the highway) I am just not sure I buy that all these people with these felonies hanging over them were first time offenders and victims of the system. Again, the cases I saw among those I knew either got off easy(many times) or had reached a serious level when they actually got in REAL trouble

It just doesn't make sense to me to send them to jail, put them in rehab in prison, make them pay the fines and restitution, tell them they will have to separate themself from drugs and a life of crime, release them to society, and tie them to the very thing that they should be trying to get away from where 20 years later they will still be answering as a felon. All because they bought something and induced it into their body. That's what people like you don't see. You don't see the ones that have learned their lesson and straightened up because the press doesn't run that.

The state does a good thing and then destroys it which is something else that the rightous don't see. Wouldn't it make more sense to let them live without prejudice after time served plus so many years of being clean? I'm not saying trust every felon you meet but give them a chance to clear their record at some point. Some states do that and some don't. Why not all? Personally I wouldn't want a felon in my neighborhood with no way to get ahead. That is a recipe for disaster and society creates that.

[blackwidow]

JonRiv I lived @ 45th & 10th Ave (Hell's Kitchen) in NYC in the late '80's & got off the subway daily @ Times Square & you're being so overly dramatic you should be doing dinner theater with a bunch of drag queens
.

That is funny. I think I'm on a George Carlin kick but that reminds me of this interview where he talks about social hysteria.

http://youtu.be/sDlM_mk6-94?t=1m15s

[PDad]

I think I'm on a George Carlin kick but that reminds me of this interview where he talks about social hysteria. http://youtu.be/sDlM_mk6-94?t=1m15s

That's good stuff.

Here is a video where Carlin provides some great insights on drugs in a couple of interviews - George Carlin On Drugs And Marijuana. Among them:
- Drug use starts off with a lot more pleasure than pain and that ratio reverses over time.
- He credits drugs for helping him realize which direction to take his career.
- He rarely used drugs later in his life - less than a toke or 2 of grass a month.
- Regarding creativity, he wrote sober and would get a little high to do some final editing.

George was fortunate that he had the intelligence and willpower to manage his drug use. Many people aren't.

[SC44]

Battle:

It just doesn't make sense to me to send them to jail, put them in rehab in prison, make them pay the fines and restitution, tell them they will have to separate themself from drugs and a life of crime, release them to society, and tie them to the very thing that they should be trying to get away from where 20 years later they will still be answering as a felon. All because they bought something and induced it into their body. That's what people like you don't see. You don't see the ones that have learned their lesson and straightened up because the press doesn't run that

Battle, where do you live? Where I live: If a first time offender gets arrested with a bag of meth, he or she will be released in about 5 hours. The person will appear in drug court and given all kinds of free services. ALL these people have to do is attend the free classes and not use drugs while they are attending the classes and the charge is reduced to a misdomeanor. Oh and if you test dirty the first time, you get another chance. You have to fail a drug test 3 times!!

[DonnieS]

JonRiv I lived @ 45th & 10th Ave (Hell's Kitchen) in NYC in the late '80's & got off the subway daily @ Times Square & you're being so overly dramatic you should be doing dinner theater with a bunch of drag queens

IMO you should use a different point of reference (when pontificating about the crack epidemic) because ALL NYers who live in Manhattan laugh at the "Bridge & Tunnel" crowd that you are a part of, well not the drug dealers because your friends, co workers & their children were all their customers back then! FYI: I found that neighborhood just as safe as any other in the borough.

X, I lived at 43rd and 9th in the late 70's - there was a major difference between that area between the late 70's and the late 80's. I remember the day I moved from over the 9th street bar - I called for a cab and he says "We don't go in there - we will pick you up at Times Square. IF you make it to times square , I will pick you up there. "

[jonriv]

1980 I was a foot messenger in manahattan(summer after 9th grade) I made deliveries for a bank to Bon Jour & Jordache jeans 8th and 9th ave in the 40s Drag Queens were least of my concerns

I know what you mean about who were the customers- I remember walking down Pine Street(near wall st) and the street lined up with dealers "smoke, smoke, smoke" for the broker crowd

Bryant park(behind the library) was impassable

some say it added character, but I'll take like it is now

You said you felt safe at that time in in hells kitchen(did you have Westies connections?)

[exD1dad]

Wow JonRiv I must say to be a foot messenger at that time in the Big Apple if you didn't have a huge set of stones you sure had to grow them fast Most people would've been overwhelmed with fear to do what your did at such a young age!

The building I lived in had an Ice Company office on the ground floor(the factory was up in the Bronx) & "Paulie the Iceman" was feeding his dog prime rib at least 3 days a week & despite being 50, fat & legally blind with coke bottle bottom lenses he knew 8 or 9 different actresses/waitress/barmaids in their 20's that I knew. I bartended @ different places , opened Mickey Mantle's (the mick was both a stud & really cool guy who wobbled when he walked after downing a few scotches) & the Crane Club uptown so I'd come home @ 4AM frequently & there was always hookers on my corner with pimps lurking in the shadows & they'd always say hello & were nice. Turns out Paulie put "the word out" that I was protected & again you are correct as he was one of the last Westies & he never got popped because of the family ice business.

The gentrification of all of Manhattan both Pre & Post 9-11 has changed the landscape of the city dramatically in many areas but I have to agree with you that the changes are for the better

[Battle]

Battle, where do you live? Where I live: If a first time offender gets arrested with a bag of meth, he or she will be released in about 5 hours. The person will appear in drug court and given all kinds of free services. ALL these people have to do is attend the free classes and not use drugs while they are attending the classes and the charge is reduced to a misdomeanor. Oh and if you test dirty the first time, you get another chance. You have to fail a drug test 3 times!!

Texas...When you say "bag", how much is that because that matters here?