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by BB2830 » Fri Oct 21, 2016 12:10 am

Is this becoming annoying to anyone else?
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by Mark H » Fri Oct 21, 2016 6:41 am

Probably a personal story behind it. A person should be allowed to vent from time to time.
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by Mark H » Mon Oct 24, 2016 9:00 am

C77fastpitch wrote:This post was about the explosion of payed hitting coaches, and their influence on the game of travel softball. I know there are good, well educated hitting coaches, but they're not all good.,
You are too generous.


C77fastpitch wrote: Some of these coaches make a great deal of money with absolutely no credentials.,
Credentials or no I've seen few teaching what I see elite hitters doing. When I first started studying the subject twenty something years ago, I read everything I could find from all the credentialed well known hitting gurus and listened to everyone who had something to say about swinging a bat. I found all the credentialed gurus disagreed with one another. So what to do? I started comparing everything anyone said about hitting to lots of video, full speed, slow motion and frame by frame of the best hitters in the world. Then I started tossing out whoever taught something obviously different from what I saw elite hitters actually doing. Those are the credentials that interest me.



C77fastpitch wrote:PT Barnum had nothing over some of these charlatans, they do absolutely nothings for the kids they're suppose to be teaching. It's sad to watch, parents who can ill afford some of these high price awful coaches simply want the best for their kids, but instead get zero. I know, who am I to know who's bad or not? Take an honest look at some of them yourself, and ask your dd what they are learning. These coaches can't lose, if your dd hits better it is because of them, if she does not, it's because she didn't listen well enough. I get no money for writing this, and I'm far from being jealous of any of them. However, I have some knowledge of this game, and sometimes I can't believe what hear and see.
,
Yep. Is the instruction designed to get your check each week or is it designed to make you your own coach and does the instruction hold up against comparison to lots of video of elite hitters are questions people might want to ask themselves.
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by softball65 » Wed Nov 02, 2016 8:22 am

I know I am late to the party here but I wanted to throw my hat in on this "Hitting Instructor" thing. Sadly we've been to quite a few different hitting instructors, numerous who were ex-D1 coaches, a few former D1 players, and even a former Olympian. My opinion was that all of them know something, although perhaps only alittle something about one aspect of hitting in the overall theme of hitting, which has a lot of things going on in order to be efficient and consistently effective. I've been very disappointed with the quality of private coaching available.

We all only know what we know but there is a TON of info out there, much of it wrong, but some of it right also. Listen to and consider it all and educate yourself (as a paid instructor) on what is right (i.e effective) and what is wrong so that you as an instructor can teach the swing and know why a kid is coming to you lunging or squishing the bug or hand to or not to the ball, stride no stride, etc. etc. know why you teach what you teach. Understand the swing and why things are as the videos or pictures show them. Why?? Know why you teach what you teach.

We have a guy who is local in my community who has a ton of students. He knows enough to be dangerous. All his kids look the same and do the same stuff wrong. He claims to be ever learning but its obvious to me he doesn't understand what he is teaching , he just teaches what he thinks he sees in videos and photos, but doesn't really understand the swing at all. I know this because I see (and hear often) about these kids and they all do the same stuff. 2 examples, I had a kid who had no idea how to take the ball to the opposite field, had never been taught. She been playing since she was 8. Every student I've had knows NOTHING about the value of routine, mental preparedness, self talk, the process of preparing to hit, or literally any aspect of the mental game. I've never seen one hitting instructor I've ever been around even mention the mental game. As a former athlete, I can attest to the fact that I'd rather have a mentally strong hitter with weak mechanics then a mechanically sound hitter with no mental game. The mental game is a huge part of the game, especially at advanced and elite levels, and can not be separated out from teaching hitting, in my opinion, but no one that I have seen teach it and that is because either 1) they don't even know it exist or 2) they don;t know enough about it to teach it or both. You want to test a hitting instructor, ask them if they teach the mental game along with their lessons, that will narrow the field dramatically.

I know a few things but I would NEVER claim to be an expert because I find my thinking evolving and growing continually, as I learn and consider alternative ways. I teach a few kids who come to me and I tell them why I have them do everything I tell them to do. But there is no one way. None of my students (boys and girls) swing the same, but the absolutes are there in all of them. I had one kid who had some crazy issue with her front foot that we could not figure out how to overcome, so we tried everything I could think of and none of it worked. I was beginning to think I failed this kid but I finally had an idea I've never taught and we tried it, and it worked. I likely would not teach this to anyone else, not that it is wrong, its just not typical. My point is there is no singular way to teach hitting, but there are absolutes that every good swing MUST have. If someone wants to be a hitting instructor, don't just understand the absolutes, be able to explain them to a mom or dad who knows nothing about the game, know them that well.

Parents, there are "instructors" out there entirely for the payday and they will say all the right stuff but the results aren't there because their methods are out of a book or off the internet. There is good info on the internet but there is just as much bad info also and if you don't know anything about what you are hearing, it all sounds good. So don't look to whether he/she is a nice person, look at the results they produce. Are they pushing your kid or is any level of output good with them? Who have he/she produced? What teams they play on? Where they going to college (level of program)? No different than you would with anything else you are spending your on, you look to see the return that investment is getting.

Just my 22 cents.
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by Mark H » Wed Nov 02, 2016 9:19 am

That's a long post. We should teach the absolutes using methods tailored to the individual and also teach the mental side. There, did it in one sentence.

How do we decide what the absolutes are when there is no agreement on this within the sport?
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by Mark H » Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:32 am

C77fastpitch wrote:, kids must have time to grow, learn, then seek professional help when it is appropriate. Don't put the cart before the wagon.


Again, as on the other thread, I hear you saying kids should practice whatever hitting, fielding and throwing mechanics they will and then later on, after these become habits, find someone who can fix their ingrained bad habits. I'm more of a fan of age appropriate teaching of effective efficient mechanics from the first.

For example in 2012 watching a hs senior outfielder committed to a mid major D1 throw with a catapult motion. I asked her, does your shoulder hurt right there when you throw? Got a yes answer. Took her back to the outfield fence and worked her through using the arm as a whip with the body being the flexible handle of the whip and then it didn't hurt when she threw. For me personally, I'm thinking that might have been better learned at the beginning of her career the first time she walked on a field and then reinforced the next eight or ten years. Young ones can only learn what they can learn but...
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by PDad » Fri Nov 04, 2016 2:23 pm

Mark H wrote:
C77fastpitch wrote:, kids must have time to grow, learn, then seek professional help when it is appropriate. Don't put the cart before the wagon. :?

Again, as on the other thread, I hear you saying kids should practice whatever hitting, fielding and throwing mechanics they will and then later on, after these become habits, find someone who can fix their ingrained bad habits. I'm more of a fan of age appropriate teaching of effective efficient mechanics from the first. ... Young ones can only learn what they can learn but...

I agree with both of you and just want to add a real need/issue for beginning and intermediate rec players is educating coaches/parents so at least they aren't perpetuating bad teachings and/or undermining proper techniques. As C77 might say, "Primum non nocere."

I'm a firm believer in "teach the teachers" when it comes to training large groups. Good rec leagues provide some training for the coaches and they in turn train parents how to run some simple element-specific drills during team practice and on their own.

"Practice doesn't make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect.". I believe a good set of drills can foster some good habits and prevent some bad habits, Parents need to figure out when their player has plateaued on them and needs more/better instruction to improve.
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by Mark H » Fri Nov 04, 2016 4:14 pm

PDad wrote:I'm a firm believer in "teach the teachers" when it comes to training large groups. Good rec leagues provide some training for the coaches and they in turn train parents how to run some simple element-specific drills during team practice and on their own.
.


Yes but what do we teach about how to throw, how to field a ground ball, how to swing a bat etc. There is no sport wide consensus.
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by PDad » Fri Nov 04, 2016 5:43 pm

Mark H wrote:
PDad wrote:I'm a firm believer in "teach the teachers" when it comes to training large groups. Good rec leagues provide some training for the coaches and they in turn train parents how to run some simple element-specific drills during team practice and on their own.
.

Yes but what do we teach about how to throw, how to field a ground ball, how to swing a bat etc. There is no sport wide consensus.

Consensus schmensus, very few things in life have a consensus. That's because there is not just one way to be successful doing most things and there is always someone saying they know a better way.

I'm talking about rec and there are some generally accepted basic principles that are appropriate for that level. I expect you could think of some if you tried. It would have been more useful than fixating on one paragraph out of its context.
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by Mark H » Fri Nov 04, 2016 9:26 pm

My comment is not to criticize you. It's meant to identify the problem. And it IS a problem. With throwing it's more a case of lack of attention than it is fiercely held beliefs they way it is with hitting.
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