Follow
Donate to HeyBucket.com - Amount:

Welcome Anonymous !

Your Fastpitch Softball Bible
 

IN

o

by jwrunner » Thu Sep 22, 2016 7:02 pm

C77,

I will try to respond to your points without turning this into an argument (hopefully).

To your points about Tincher PCs, I haven't been to Chicago area guy so I can only speak to the Indy coach. I know she was told by Tincher that she had to charge the same as the other Tincher coaches. They didn't want people switching coaches based on fees.

To your numbered points:
1) I am not choosing inspiration OVER strikeouts. I am using it as a differentiator between instructors who are all teaching good technique. And I contend that it doesn't matter if an instructor teaches the best techniques if they can't communicate it or reach their student.
2) Simply saying lessons shouldn't cost more than $25 doesn't make it achievable. In a free market society, lessons will cost what the market will bear. That is always the final arbiter of value - what someone will pay. In the Indianapolis area, the vast majority of the well known pitching instructors start at $30-35 even for group lessons. I only know of one PC whom I feel is decent who charges $25 and does groups of 4 kids together, but she is the exception, not the rule.
3) I'm aware of most of the quality PCs in central Indiana. If my last diatribe doesn't convince you that I am shopping wisely, then I don't know what the hell would. (I chose not to even get into the research on computational fluid dynamics analysis of the aerodynamics of spinning softballs/baseballs) :o
4) I wasn't aware Moore had a book. I've been to his website before though and seemed like he was just hawking his pitching aid ("the most innovative and revolutionary pitching aid to ever hit the market"). Will look for the book - surely something valuable in there.
5) Absolutely love Sarno's stuff and would go to him for lessons if I could but alas he is in California. BTW charges $50 per half hour.

The PS - I hear lots of talk about the same finish on all pitches but in my opinion, if you look at the video it's just not the case with the best pitchers. Yukiko Ueno may be the best there is (she has owned the US Olympic team) - and her finishes are very different on different pitches. She still makes people look like fools with that killer change up even though her arm finishes 2 or 3 feet higher than on her other pitches. Also, my palm-down comments were fastball specific and I specifically excluded the rise ball from my initial discussion.

All in all, I just don't see how the Tincher PCs are particularly unique in their approach. Most of the people you point to also use a fair amount of salesmanship in their business. That's the key to me - it's a business to these people - the primary means of income for many. It's not a charity for the good of us parents. I just don't begrudge any of these people the right to use a little salesmanship when making a living. It would not be fair of me to expect them not to make the most profit that the market will bear. Just as it would not be fair of them to not expect me to evaluate their services and shop around.

Thanks for a good discussion.
jwrunner
Premium Member
Premium Member
 
Posts: 17
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2014 10:27 am

by Tyler Durden » Sat Sep 24, 2016 1:45 pm

C77fastpitch wrote:I will certify anyone in pitching for the Low-low price of 150$, and I'm not even a pitching coach, but I do know Jenny Finch. In fact for 150$ I will certify anyone in anything- Pitching, hitting, fielding, catching, hunting, fishing, marbles, stump jumping, Kite Flying, ect. For 250$ I'll send you my book on how to coach without having the slightest idea about the sport you are coaching. This book was a best seller with many travel ball coaches. For 450$ I will send my new book on how to make fiends on Heybucket. It's flying on the shelves, and sometimes toward me! If this online business picks up I'll be able to retire before I'm 35.


It's a lunatic shit-post like this one that reassures me that my original opinion of you is on target.
VETERANS....ALL GAVE SOME, SOME GAVE ALL
User avatar
Tyler Durden
Premium Member
Premium Member
 
Posts: 531
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2010 11:04 am

by jwrunner » Mon Sep 26, 2016 8:27 am

C77fastpitch wrote:No arguments, but a difference of opinion. You might recognize a difference in mechanics when you watch a slowed down video, but try hitting against this type of pitcher in real time. I've hit against this type of pitcher many times, and let me tell you they are tough. Keilani Ricketts was this type of pitcher. She threw hard, but she was even better about hiding her pitches. She was the most overwhelming pitcher I can remember, and she continues to improve her skills. Give me a fast pitcher any day, you can time them, but when they destroy your hitting balance your in trouble. I'm not going to debate you on how some Tincher coaches coach, I don't know all of them. However, if I believed myself to be a knowledgeable pitching coach I don't believe I would need to be certified by someone else. I know very little about this free Market stuff either, that is not my field. However, in my opinion common sense should dictate what a coach should charge. If your rich, knock yourself out! But, why would anyone pay more for something than it's worth. No one coach is going to determine the success of your daughter pitching career. For someone that has never coached or played softball, you seem to be well read and somewhat knowledgeable about this game, and that takes hard work, good for you! I wish you and your daughter much success.


I appreciate that our conversation hasn't devolved into an openly antagonistic one. But from my personal point of view, this post is an example of why you have a hard time getting people to engage you in a reasonable debate. Even though you haven't resorted to name calling, you still felt the need to establish yourself as superior - more knowledgeable and more experienced. You automatically assumed that I never played or coached, even though there is nothing in any of my posts that would have told you that. I don't believe I've ever even identified my gender, and certainly not my age, or playing experience, or coaching experience. For that matter, even if I had identified as male, there is a history of a competitive men's fastpitch community in Indianapolis - I know many men who played for years at a high level. You merely assumed that you were more knowledgeable and experienced; and the resultant air of superiority comes though in your posts. I appreciate that you played, and apparently against some well known names. But if that is true, then you also undoubtedly know of many others who played at a similar level and still don't know squat about how they did what they did, let alone how to communicate and teach it to others. So while that experience and perspective is certainly something I would prefer to see in a coach, it does not automatically define you as knowledgeable or qualified. That comes over time as you share that knowledge.

I'm hopeful that this post will be taken as constructive criticism, because that truly is the spirit of it. I find it is very helpful myself whenever I can get insight into how others are viewing me - it is often quite different than I intended or than I see myself. I love having debate - even spirited debate. But if you approach it with a tenor or superiority, you will rarely have any kind of real, productive exchange.
jwrunner
Premium Member
Premium Member
 
Posts: 17
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2014 10:27 am

by slapperdad » Mon Sep 26, 2016 5:11 pm

Every man lives by a code:
1.Always look cool
2.Never get lost
3.If you get lost, look cool
User avatar
slapperdad
 
Posts: 887
Joined: Fri May 01, 2009 7:28 pm

by SDTitans » Mon Sep 26, 2016 8:32 pm

I have this tball pitcher who should be getting looked at by Florida this weekend at the showcase. She has the speed and the potential to be the best pitcher in her class. didn't use a $150 an hour coach or a $40 hr coach.. Just her dad, a bucket, a tee and sheer determination.. she is pretty athletic also, so I think that has helped her master putting a ball on a tee faster than anyone in the 50 states..
SDTitans
Premium Member
Premium Member
 
Posts: 935
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2011 9:50 am

by slapperdad » Mon Sep 26, 2016 8:39 pm

I have a high school education from a really average Indiana high school, you got all that crap and you think this is a debate? I do wish I coulda got a date in high school though.
Every man lives by a code:
1.Always look cool
2.Never get lost
3.If you get lost, look cool
User avatar
slapperdad
 
Posts: 887
Joined: Fri May 01, 2009 7:28 pm

by slapperdad » Tue Sep 27, 2016 8:53 am

I prefer to live vicariously thru my kids. Unfortunately that ship has basically sailed at this point. I guess I'll just try to pick up the pieces and move on, hopefully I'll make something of my life, I need something to put in the obituary.
Every man lives by a code:
1.Always look cool
2.Never get lost
3.If you get lost, look cool
User avatar
slapperdad
 
Posts: 887
Joined: Fri May 01, 2009 7:28 pm

by Pale Rider » Tue Sep 27, 2016 11:33 am

Spazsdad wrote:Here lays Slapperdad
He always looked cool


THIS cool?
Image
AKA "Thread Killer"

"Damnation seize my soul if I give you quarters, or take any from you."
Edward "Blackbeard" Teach
User avatar
Pale Rider
Premium Member
Premium Member
 
Posts: 1651
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2012 8:34 am
Location: Land Down Under

by Tyler Durden » Wed Sep 28, 2016 5:06 am

Wadsworth Longfellow. Just sayin.
VETERANS....ALL GAVE SOME, SOME GAVE ALL
User avatar
Tyler Durden
Premium Member
Premium Member
 
Posts: 531
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2010 11:04 am

by jwrunner » Wed Sep 28, 2016 7:49 am

C77fastpitch wrote:Thanks for your suggestions, but I don't need them. I calculated your wisdom by your statements, and there wasn't lot of knowledge there. I don't mean to sound mean, but I will not say something I don't believe. I don't care what your experience is, you either talk common sense softball all you don't. In my opinion some of the silly points you talk about relating to pitching are novice at best. Your correct in saying experience isn't everything, but knowledge is. I don't pretend to be the most knowledgeable person on earth, but I've worked hard to establish a network between myself and softball experts around the world. My opinions are based on a best practice summery of notable coaches, players, and experts in body mechanics. I'm always ready to adapt my opinions when a better way is shown to work, but I will not be persuaded by hearsay evidence and nonsense popular rhetoric. This whole idea of certification is my opinion is silly at best. Your either a learned softball individual or you are not. You either follow universal best practice pitching mechanics, and practice procedures or you do not. Sure there is always room for innovation, but not hyperbolic nonsense. I hope people like what I write and realize what I say is done with best intentions, but I will not agree or dumb myself down to make people happy. There are a handful of posters on this forum that are mere antagonist that really have no opinions on any softball issue. I don't make these people happy, I never will, and I don't care. If you are knowledgeable or have half a brain you scare them. So please don't suggest that I try to conform to their narrow minded view of the world.


And now we've finally gotten to the inevitable post. Calling my "silly points" "novice as best" without actually refuting or debating any of them is lazy name calling at best and more likely just plain ignorant. You calculated my wisdom - that's some funny shit there. Happy to show my Mensa card if you really feel the need to "whip it out on the table" to show how big your brain is. Dumb yourself down? You made ZERO comments that actually addressed ANYTHING about actual mechanics. Just commented on your perception of everyone else's stupidity. Way to show your knowledge. FYI - a pretty common trait of truly intelligent people is they don't feel the need to tell everyone how much smarter they are than everyone else. It comes through. Guess you missed that day at genius camp.

I strongly doubt that you've ever actually TALKED to a Tincher PC about what they teach. Probably basing your entire opinion on hyperbolic hearsay. Then fall naturally into confirmation bias (the small minded trap of the masses) to make yourself feel smart. Just making the absurd claim that there is any such thing as "universal best practice pitching mechanics" shows you couldn't have had any substantive discussion on mechanics with more than 1 or 2 pitching coaches. Many well known, highly regarded coaches have fundamental differences in philosophy. I gave you a few actual examples of competing schools of thought if you had bothered to actually read and understand vs. read to get mad and respond with bluster. You know - data, evidence, scientific method - ever hear of that crazy stuff.

I tried, and will now give up. I will give you credit for one thing though. You have single-handedly destroyed this message board. Congrats.
jwrunner
Premium Member
Premium Member
 
Posts: 17
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2014 10:27 am

PreviousNext

Return to IN

cron