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New Socal ASA rec. rules?

by Coach_Larry » Fri Nov 21, 2014 4:39 am

eclipse09 wrote:
Coach_Larry wrote:I don't see it as necessarily negative. I think that well organized B leagues should be able to do an excellent job of providing an alternative to low level travel ball. Many of them have the infrastructure and resources needed to make such a team successful. I don't look at it as the big leagues having an advantage over the small leagues if well executed. I see it as a chance for the big leagues to finally maximize what they have built, and to capitalize on their demographic. It will also bring in better coaching to the league, and set goals for younger players. All of this while still playing ball with your schoolmates; doesn't sound half bad.


I am not buying it. Well organized leagues are already taking care of the skilled player. Rec has always been a place where friends play together. Now they can play together on rec teams and then separate on Sundays when the select player heads off to her friendlies. Should be a fun dynamic and of course parents will just love it. :roll:


The same group of parents who hate everything, will hate this too. At 12U +, this is absolutely necessary, in my opinion. Many kids are playing their last year of softball (read HARDball), and are barely there anyway. It's brutal for the kids who want to have a chance to play HS ball someday, but still need or want to play community ball. All of the negative dynamics of this program are already in existence, and will not go away anytime soon. Is this really much different, in substance, than split rec divisions?
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by respectthegame » Fri Nov 21, 2014 10:43 am

Why are there ramifications for these select teams when it comes to all stars? The only incentive that any competitive player has in rec is all stars and now you are going to separate the all star tournaments into different "B" level tournaments for those who have played "Select" and those who have not? That is a joke and almost forces any quality "B" league team that competes to have to do select. How is ASA making it better? I would much rather have any league teams do what a lot of them are doing now and play travel during the Fall and come back in the Spring and play rec. They are not going to keep any more players in the leagues by doing this at all.
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by tbjd33 » Fri Nov 21, 2014 11:42 am

respectthegame wrote:Why are there ramifications for these select teams when it comes to all stars? The only incentive that any competitive player has in rec is all stars and now you are going to separate the all star tournaments into different "B" level tournaments for those who have played "Select" and those who have not? That is a joke and almost forces any quality "B" league team that competes to have to do select. How is ASA making it better? I would much rather have any league teams do what a lot of them are doing now and play travel during the Fall and come back in the Spring and play rec. They are not going to keep any more players in the leagues by doing this at all.


I like tight rules... I think there are to many travel teams and more girls need to play league ball. It benefits both lower skilled and higher skilled players. Problem is parents have egos and want their DD to be a superstar. Well numbers are against them people. The sooner everyone realizes it the better off the leagues and DD's will be...

Oh and we are talking 12u and under... Does it all really matter? Uhh nope!
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by jjsqueeze » Fri Nov 21, 2014 12:27 pm

??? If the parents of the better players wanted them to be superstars wouldn't they just keep them in rec instead of going to a higher level of competition? And how does playing with lesser skilled players help the good players? My experience is that playing with better players helps kids get better.
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by B34R DOWN » Fri Nov 21, 2014 12:53 pm

From what I have heard Select players and coaches will be forced to play/coach rec teams too... That's twice as many practices and games... So instead of practicing/playing three times a week you will be required if you play Select to play/practice 5 days a week... That seems extreme for Rec ball... That's a lot of commitment for young kids (8/10u)... Doesn't leave a lot of time for School, other sports/activities, or just being a kid... I
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by tbjd33 » Fri Nov 21, 2014 3:17 pm

jjsqueeze wrote:??? If the parents of the better players wanted them to be superstars wouldn't they just keep them in rec instead of going to a higher level of competition? And how does playing with lesser skilled players help the good players? My experience is that playing with better players helps kids get better.


Two things I have seen over the years in sports. 1) not all kids are meant to play sports 2) most parents believe their child is better than they truly are. Sad but true on both!

Now... Ask yourself what the goal of rec/travel ball is... Both are to keep our DD's healthy, build friendships, out of trouble or etc. both levels serve a purpose and parents placing their DD at the appropriate level is a good thing. I agree playing better comp does usually help improve a player, BUT in many cases it doesn't. For that reason I advocate fewer travel teams and more rec teams/orgs.

End of the day I'm for your DD and what's best. I'm fortunate that my DD has done very well for herself but I've seen so many DDs not!

Just my opinion on what I've seen over the years from rec ball to the highest levels...
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by eclipse09 » Mon Nov 24, 2014 7:19 am

Coach_Larry wrote:
eclipse09 wrote:
Coach_Larry wrote:I don't see it as necessarily negative. I think that well organized B leagues should be able to do an excellent job of providing an alternative to low level travel ball. Many of them have the infrastructure and resources needed to make such a team successful. I don't look at it as the big leagues having an advantage over the small leagues if well executed. I see it as a chance for the big leagues to finally maximize what they have built, and to capitalize on their demographic. It will also bring in better coaching to the league, and set goals for younger players. All of this while still playing ball with your schoolmates; doesn't sound half bad.


I am not buying it. Well organized leagues are already taking care of the skilled player. Rec has always been a place where friends play together. Now they can play together on rec teams and then separate on Sundays when the select player heads off to her friendlies. Should be a fun dynamic and of course parents will just love it. :roll:


The same group of parents who hate everything, will hate this too. At 12U +, this is absolutely necessary, in my opinion. Many kids are playing their last year of softball (read HARDball), and are barely there anyway. It's brutal for the kids who want to have a chance to play HS ball someday, but still need or want to play community ball. All of the negative dynamics of this program are already in existence, and will not go away anytime soon. Is this really much different, in substance, than split rec divisions?



Agree with parents who are never happy. The B select division will be happening this year and it looks like it will help keep some 12u players in rec. We'll see how it goes.
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by eclipse09 » Mon Nov 24, 2014 7:25 am

Please note nothing is officially in the rule book, but should be added by the new year.

ASA's B select divsion is moving forward. It will be 10u and 12u only. Yes it will be each league's first all-star team. Rosters have to be set by March 31st. Any select player must play for their rec league (50% or more), select players cannot play travel after Feb 1st and the select team plays once a week.

I hope this works and keeps the players who are not quite ready for travel in the rec leagues a little longer. This could benefit travel if some players do select a few years before moving on. More to come.
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by Nicelag » Fri Nov 28, 2014 5:59 am

In addition there are not separate Select and all-star divisions. Here are a few more details:

ASA has stated that this program is intended to keep more girls in the rec programs from jumping to travel ball.

If you choose to go the Select B route your league will become and "B" level team. Not really beneficial for the "C" leagues to do this in my opinion.

The select team is your #1 all-star team. The roster must be submitted to ASA by March 1st and is frozen on March 31st. After March 31st players can be added to account for those who are new or improve throughout the season, but players cannot be removed. Players can be added or removed any time between March 1 and March 31.

There are no rules as to the selection process for the Select teams. This is to be set and done at the league level.

There are no commitments to coaches, They can be removed or changed at any time even after the rosters are frozen. Select coaches have no right or guarantee to the all-star team.

There can only be (1) Select team per division. All teams that choose to participate in the Select program will play in the regular "B" level tournaments District - nationals, and will play with regular "B" level leagues that do not go the Select route. So, "B: level rec all-stars is "B" level rec all-stars.

"C" level rec leagues that choose to go the Select route will play "B" level, and if the decide that it doesn't work for them they will need to petition ASA to be reclassified as "C" level. This is why I say it is very risky for "C" level teams and probably not something I would do.

Leagues can form a 2nd Select team, but they have to petition ASA to play in the "C" level tournaments. However, ASA stated that if you are from a strong league i.e. Fountain Valley, Los Al etc they will not let you do this so the lower level "C" rec leagues should still be safe.

If your league usually forms (2) all-star teams within each age division the second team can still be formed using your usual all-star selection process.

If your league participates in the Select program your players cannon play or practice with a travel ball team after February 1st. If you do not participate the current March 31st rule applies.

This program does not allow your Select team to have unlimited practices and games during the regular rec season. ASA rules allow for only (1) game or practice per week. ASA advised that violation of this rule can lead to all-star sanctions of 1-2 years. There is a time frame window in which you can practice which is about 4-6 weeks only. I believe the end date is April 30th. I am working on getting the exact start and end dates, and when I get that info I will post it here (if I remember lol).

From what I see the only real benefits to this program are as follows:
1. It allows the better players to play together "once" a week either for a practice or game against another Select league participant. These Select games will scheduled with the assistance of your ASA district rep.
2. Allows your all-star team to start practicing before the traditional ASA May 1st date.

The bad:
1. Someone is always pissed off after all star selections, but through the normal process you only have to deal with the pissed off people for a short time. Usually about a week or two while the season finishes. With this program you will be listening to it from the beginning (potentially about 3 months)
2. Who is going to tell that girl on March 30th that she is no longer on the team if you choose to replace her.
3. This could potentially cause a lot of social problems with your league in regards to the above.

The good thing about all of this is that the program is entirely voluntary, and if you choose not to participate nothing will change for your league. ASA is making a few small tweaks as the result of question at the meeting on Nov 23. The finalized info will be in the Blue book that will be out in January.

As with others I do not feel that this program will have much of an impact but time will tell. I also think that once PGF initiates a program for the 10U division that replaces the ASA all-star experience i.e. national championship with qualifications leading up to it ASA is in trouble. Just my opinion
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by Coach_Larry » Fri Nov 28, 2014 9:11 am

I was originally optimistic about this program, but the Socal version is too gimmicky. Maybe next year, it will be better.
I think the select teams should be completely unrestricted other than the girls have to come in through the local league, True A players will not do that, but lower level travel types might; so you automatically get a high quality, but real B product. I think its good for both B and C Championship tournaments.
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