Norcal top ten list!! Let's hear it!

[wadeintothem]

Actually, there are a few on that team that DO have OKC experience, Wade. And with two exceptions, this team could play 16u again this summer. So while this will definitely be a summer to test and tune for Magic, this team could stay intact for several years to come. Even the two who can't play 16's (and who went to Gold Nat's as 15 yo's) are by age only first year golds. And there are former Magic players who will have a year of D1 under their belt who may be back in the summer, who knows?

Point well taken. Nonetheless, it is still a comparatively young and inexperienced team compared to most top 18G National bound squads. That is not said to detract away from their talent, which no one denies them; it is just fact. Good luck to them, I'll definitely see them on the dirt!

[Old Darter]

Sorry, thought we were talking about NORCAL top ten, NOT National top ten. I think they're a proven commodity in the NORCAL market, nationally remains to be seen. I understand that 16u Nats is over, but as far as NORCAL is concerned no other team has won that tournament in recent memory, certianly none of the players on any current NORCAL Gold team/organization.

I expect they'll do well enough to qualify this year and gain the experience. By the summer of 2010, with Jolene and Lindsey having a year at CAL under their belt and Allie ready to head off for UCLA, they should do much better than just qualifying. And in 2011, that roster will be loaded with returning D1 players....

And just to be clear, no DD on that team.

[jmo]

Sorry, thought we were talking about NORCAL top ten, NOT National top ten. I think they're a proven commodity in the NORCAL market, nationally remains to be seen. I understand that 16u Nats is over, but as far as NORCAL is concerned no other team has won that tournament in recent memory, certianly none of the players on any current NORCAL Gold team/organization.

I expect they'll do well enough to qualify this year and gain the experience. By the summer of 2010, with Jolene and Lindsey having a year at CAL under their belt and Allie ready to head off for UCLA, they should do much better than just qualifying. And in 2011, that roster will be loaded with returning D1 players....

And just to be clear, no DD on that team.

That is if college players will be allowed during 2010. The vote just missed for 2009 by 2 votes for not allowing college players.

[DHBHitting]

Your points are well taken Old Darter, however I believe the point that a couple of us are trying to make is that your statement that they are a proven commodity even in Nor Cal is maybe a bit premature being that you are basing this off of Fall Ball Games in which these rosters where not what they will be in June and a National Championship at 16's.

Hey, but maybe you are right, that is what this is all about, I look forward to seeing how the squad does. I mean I was able to watch them very closely the season before last when they played Gold and they more than held their own at that point, so why not now.

Actually they came very close to qualifying right out of the gate down in Lancaster, remember that? Shoot they had Bases loaded, 1 out, agaisnt the Renegades, with the Breeze waiting in the qualifying game who they knew they could beat, but didnt score. So they where basically one hit away from really being close to qualifying in Lancaster. I believe the Renegades ended up beating them by 1 that game but needed a 2 run homer at the end of the game if I'm not mistaken to do it. Now granted this squad is not entirely the same as that one but they still have that same core I believe.

So maybe you are right, time will tell, summer should be very exciting with some real interesting games to be played.

[Old Darter]

Agreed to all your points, but mine is this. They have consistently been the best team in the current age window in Northern California for the last 5 years. Why wouldn't that continue? It's the same pool of kids (for the most part). Granted those kids are shuffling around teams, sometimes improving them, sometimes not. I think LM strength is they tend to retain players. Heck, the core of their currrent team has played together since 12u and it payed off with a National Championship. Several of them even play on the same High School team (2 time defending Section Champs).

If they were dominate at 12u....at 14u...and at 16u against the other NOTHERN CALIFORNIA teams, how can you say they are unproven in that market? If they beat the Grapes or Breeze at 12,14 and 16, why not expect it at 18G? Isn't it essentially the same pool of players or was there some huge infusion of 17 year olds over the winter into NorCal? Yes thye are young. But they have consistently played up over the years and done well against the same pool of players now in NorCal Gold programs.


BTW, I also understand 2011 will be the last year for the Lady Magic organization if their current policy holds, so they'll be looking to go out in a blaze of glory...

[wadeintothem]

I'm with DHB and have maintained I have first hand knowledge of this teams talent, as I am sure DHB does. I am simply interested to see how it plays out on in the dirt. There is nothing that can be posted that affects that bottom line. Once again, I wish magic and all the teams the best of luck in what should be an awesome 18G year!

[DHBHitting]

Great discussion Old Darter and your point that it is pretty much the same group of kids is at the surface a very valid one, but let me point out some things that you may be missing.

1.) Gold, the really good teams that is, at least try and attempt to consolidate talent. Now I have complained about this being a weakness in Nor Cal and it is, but like you pointed out so well there are clubs that do consolidate talent pretty decently. Take a look at the Magic, they do a good job of it in the Sac area, the Sting does a good job of it in the San Jose area, Grapes do a decent job in the Stockton area of it, and the Sorcerer do a pretty good job of it in the Concord area. So my point is that Gold is a bit different because these teams will not have as many weak spots in their order as they once did at the younger age divisions where daddy ball just ran rampant.

2.) The age division is a bit more spread out, what I mean is, at Gold you will get the best 14/15 year olds to the best 18 year olds all on one squad there by making them stronger. I mean not to put down 16's or even 14's but most really strong players skip those age divisions, some play of course, but most do not. Most really strong players jump straight from first year 14's to Gold, so this gives these top programs who do a better job of consolidating a chance to get more talent on their teams. It also weakens the 14's and 16's terribly as the stronger players are not in that division any longer.

3.) College players really do make a difference my friend. They strengthen a team big time, now nobody is saying it makes you unbeatable, Lord knows that is not the case, but it most definitely strengthens a team.

So the bottom line is and in answer to your question that "these are the same kids they have always played against right?".....well, not really, this is a combination of nearly two age divisions above and below them they will now be playing against. And when they compete against the top clubs it will not only be that they are competing agaisnt a wider age range of kids than ever before but that it will be the best of the best of that bunch, when you are dealing with the top clubs that is....so its a little different...

But again I'm sure you guys will compete, you always have, and I hear you loud and clear on that point...Good luck to you guys!

[Demonboy]

Sorry, thought we were talking about NORCAL top ten, NOT National top ten. I think they're a proven commodity in the NORCAL market, nationally remains to be seen. I understand that 16u Nats is over, but as far as NORCAL is concerned no other team has won that tournament in recent memory, certianly none of the players on any current NORCAL Gold team/organization.

I expect they'll do well enough to qualify this year and gain the experience. By the summer of 2010, with Jolene and Lindsey having a year at CAL under their belt and Allie ready to head off for UCLA, they should do much better than just qualifying. And in 2011, that roster will be loaded with returning D1 players....

And just to be clear, no DD on that team.

No kidding. Wade went off on a tangent and now everyone's all over the map. For my part, I only put Magic as #1 in NORCAL. I can't think of too many Nor Cal players coming back from last year that scare me that much so I'll stick with Magic.

[DHBHitting]

Fair enough Demonboy I can agree with you that there is nobody coming back in Nor Cal that would "scare me", but to be honest, is there a player anywhere like that? I mean if there was a big time freshman pitcher coming back that would be something but position players are never really that scary. But I will beg to differ on the point that collectively if a few clubs can secure the college girls they are looking to get it can actually really make them a totally different team and could really make a difference.

But hey Magic could very well be #1, I guess time will tell.

For what it is worth, I have said this before, and I will say it again..watch out for the grapes. If they bring back Tiare from New Mexico State, Rivera from Pacific, and Bott from San Jose State they could be really tough, not to mention I heard they are looking at a couple of more additions. If the Grapes somehow get a shutdown pitcher.....watch out! They could have a chance to be playing on the weekend in OKC.

[Demonboy]

Fair enough Demonboy I can agree with you that there is nobody coming back in Nor Cal that would "scare me", but to be honest, is there a player anywhere like that? I mean if there was a big time freshman pitcher coming back that would be something but position players are never really that scary. But I will beg to differ on the point that collectively if a few clubs can secure the college girls they are looking to get it can actually really make them a totally different team and could really make a difference.

But hey Magic could very well be #1, I guess time will tell.

For what it is worth, I have said this before, and I will say it again..watch out for the grapes. If they bring back Tiare from New Mexico State, Rivera from Pacific, and Bott from San Jose State they could be really tough, not to mention I heard they are looking at a couple of more additions. If the Grapes somehow get a shutdown pitcher.....watch out! They could have a chance to be playing on the weekend in OKC.

I think you're on to something there (I think I had them 3rd, too lazy to look) but the shutdown pitcher is a big if. They can not do damage against the best teams with the pitching they had last year. A top team should never, under any circumstances, get boat raced 16-0 (or whatever the score was) in championship play by anyone. If you get smoked that bad, you have deficiencies that have to be addressed. If they get that pitcher though, they could be a player.