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Cheating

by C77fastpitch » Sat Jul 14, 2018 11:02 pm

Slapper-dad, I don't want to talk to you in any form, and I don't care what you have to say. Post in Indiana, where a few people find you clever, because I don't. My recent post in Indiana had nothing to do with you, and you posted something about California lowering the bar scores. I made a mistake, I shouldn't have answered you. I don't like you, or respect your comments, so leave me alone!
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by Hinky » Mon Jul 16, 2018 6:00 am

c77 Too bad to see that any response that doesn't agree with you is treated so negatively by you.

certainly you've been on heybucket long enough to be aware that not everybody agrees with each other in these discussion topics.

Slappedad post I thought was a great response because in your post you're questioning the Umpire and what better way to understand the umpires job but to jump in their shoes, and get the umpire's perspective.

c77 I've responded to your post even share with you a good thing your post are entertaining. while I do not agree with most of your posts. Even trying to say they are entertaining, which is actually a positive thing, cuz they're worth reading for that purpose. you remarked at me negatively. Even trying to respond with humor you frown on negatively. no matter how anybody responds and a lot of times I noticed they're not in agreement with you...
You frown back. Calling people names, trying to tell people they don't know how to think, saying people are uneducated.
I'm simply pointing out to you c77 that you don't come across as a nice person. you come across as narrow-minded and mean. In a discussion forum that has many different levels of softball knowledge, viewpoints and personalities.(yours included)

you asked for feedback by posting questions. you get your feedback and then you slam on people. kind of seems like you're just trying to find excuses to vent your personal frustrations.


Good luck to your 10u softball player!
Last edited by Hinky on Mon Jul 16, 2018 6:35 am, edited 2 times in total.
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by slapperdad » Mon Jul 16, 2018 6:01 am

C77fastpitch wrote:Slapper-dad, I don't want to talk to you in any form, and I don't care what you have to say. Post in Indiana, where a few people find you clever, because I don't. My recent post in Indiana had nothing to do with you, and you posted something about California lowering the bar scores. I made a mistake, I shouldn't have answered you. I don't like you, or respect your comments, so leave me alone!


I disagree, I LOVE SoCal, and more than a few there find me clever. The UC Irvine In and Out is my favorite location. Though I often frequent the In and Out on Camrose in North Hollywood, my favorite dining experience has traditionally been at UC Irvine location.

Also on the contrary, I love you, and have mad respect for your semi lucid ramblings. Just the entertainment value alone is a gold mine.
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by slapperdad » Mon Jul 16, 2018 6:18 am

C77fastpitch wrote:A very simple question. Why are some pitchers allowed to cheat? Monica Abbot cheat steps and a host of college starts crow hop. If crow-hopping and cheat stepping are still against the rules, why are some pitchers allowed to do this while others get called for it? Now travel ball girls are cheating as well, with of course NO calls.


Monica Abbot is a professional player, I have no idea what Pro/international rules are. Perhaps you should direct your question to their governing bodies. At that level, rest assured the umpires are calling what they are told to call.

Cheat stepping is not a term I've ever heard. It's not listed in any rule book I've ever read, assume you mean replant, which all the terminology you're using is referring to.

There are a myriad of variable that go into the decision making process as far as calling an infraction. Far too many to list them all here, but one of the biggies is, "is there an advantage being gained?" Example there's a big difference between Monica Abbot crow hopping three feet and a 12U kid replanting 6" in front of the rubber who's just trying to throw a strike, and they should be handled differently in my opinion.

As a fan, coach, or player, do you want to see a game that's constantly interrupted by "calls"? We've all been involved in these types of games, and they're no fun, from a fan, coach, player, or even official's standpoint. I think there is a move a foot to get rid of advancing base runners on illegal pitches, I think if you could do that, you would see it called more often. That is a stiff penalty. Best case scenario, you're putting a runner in scoring position, worst case scenario, a run is scoring.

Also keep in mind, in many cases, on worn fields, there is a trench in front of the pitching plate, it may appear the pitcher is replanting, when in fact she's just dragging thru.

I know at times this has been a POE for NFHS. Frankly at the high school level, I don't really see it being an issue, at least in the games I see. I don't see near the amount of travel ball that I used to, but I don't really see it being an issue there as well. Of course there are those pitchers out there, and typically everyone knows who they are that do it.
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by Hinky » Mon Jul 16, 2018 6:32 am

slapperdad wrote:
C77fastpitch wrote:A very simple question. Why are some pitchers allowed to cheat? Monica Abbot cheat steps and a host of college starts crow hop. If crow-hopping and cheat stepping are still against the rules, why are some pitchers allowed to do this while others get called for it? Now travel ball girls are cheating as well, with of course NO calls.


Monica Abbot is a professional player, I have no idea what Pro/international rules are. Perhaps you should direct your question to their governing bodies. At that level, rest assured the umpires are calling what they are told to call.

Cheat stepping is not a term I've ever heard. It's not listed in any rule book I've ever read, assume you mean replant, which all the terminology you're using is referring to.

There are a myriad of variable that go into the decision making process as far as calling an infraction. Far too many to list them all here, but one of the biggies is, "is there an advantage being gained?" Example there's a big difference between Monica Abbot crow hopping three feet and a 12U kid replanting 6" in front of the rubber who's just trying to throw a strike, and they should be handled differently in my opinion.

As a fan, coach, or player, do you want to see a game that's constantly interrupted by "calls"? We've all been involved in these types of games, and they're no fun, from a fan, coach, player, or even official's standpoint. I think there is a move a foot to get rid of advancing base runners on illegal pitches, I think if you could do that, you would see it called more often. That is a stiff penalty. Best case scenario, you're putting a runner in scoring position, worst case scenario, a run is scoring.

Also keep in mind, in many cases, on worn fields, there is a trench in front of the pitching plate, it may appear the pitcher is replanting, when in fact she's just dragging thru.

I know at times this has been a POE for NFHS. Frankly at the high school level, I don't really see it being an issue, at least in the games I see. I don't see near the amount of travel ball that I used to, but I don't really see it being an issue there as well. Of course there are those pitchers out there, and typically everyone knows who they are that do it.


Outstanding slapperdad!

Yes c77 posts can be entertaining.
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by C77fastpitch » Mon Jul 16, 2018 8:57 pm

Slapperdad- Your not clever, funny or interesting, and I wouldn't want an endorsement from Hinky. Your paragraph about others who break the rules are like everything else you say, have nothing to do with the subject. Rules are made for a reason, and SHOULD be followed by everyone. Otherwise they're not rules now are they? My daughter recently played in a tournament in Southern California, and she did very well. However, the crow hopping and cheat stepping was outrageous. If cheat stepping and crow-hopping are allowed, fine, then put it in the rule-book.
Hinky- in response to you slanderous post. Your suggestion that I'm humorous is nothing less than a slight on my intelligence. I wish I were as smart as you, your so logical and intelligent. Your post aren't silly and stupid like mine. My post are to be ridiculed by your know- it- all professionlism. How dare me think that your words, like humorous, entertaining, are but catch phrases to try to make me feel foolish. So now Slapperdad as enter the fray, and you find support for your demeaning thoughts and words. I don't care if you agree with me or not, but your type of degrading language will never work. I'm done talking or sharing thoughts with either one of you, and would appreciate you both staying off my posts and Ill stay off yours. .
Last edited by C77fastpitch on Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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by Spazsdad » Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:44 pm

Damn gurl, relax. It’s ok, really.
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by Hinky » Tue Jul 17, 2018 6:34 am

This works :arrow: :lol:
Back at you c77
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by slapperdad » Tue Jul 17, 2018 8:00 am

C77fastpitch wrote:Slapperdad- Your not clever, funny or interesting, and I wouldn't want an endorsement from Hinky. Your paragraph about others who break the rules are like everything else you say, have nothing to do with the subject. Rules are made for a reason, and SHOULD be followed by everyone. Otherwise they're not rules now are they? My daughter recently played in a tournament in Southern California, and she did very well. However, the crow hopping and cheat stepping was outrageous. If cheat stepping and crow-hopping are allowed, fine, then put it in the rule-book.
Hinky- in response to you slanderous post. Your suggestion that I'm humorous is nothing less than a slight on my intelligence. I wish I were as smart as you, your so logical and intelligent. Your post aren't silly and stupid like mine. My post are to be ridiculed by your know- it- all professionlism. How dare me think that your words, like humorous, entertaining, are but catch phrases to try to make me feel foolish. So now Slapperdad as enter the fray, and you find support for your demeaning thoughts and words. I don't care if you agree with me or not, but your type of degrading language will never work. I'm done talking or sharing thoughts with either one of you, and would appreciate you both staying off my posts and Ill stay off yours. .


I will try, ONE more time. Keep in mind here, I'm not questioning anyone's education, MENSA status, or intelligence. This is where I don't think you have an understanding of rules, their application, and what is referred to as "spirit of the rules". Admittedly spirit of the rules is not a term that's used a lot in Softball, but it exists none the less.

Assuming C77's post is aimed at younger pitchers, lets look at this from a couple of different angles.
1. What is the goal of younger age groups? I would maintain it's learning the game, honing your skills, having some fun, and keep them coming back next year?
2. With my goal in mind, if a pitcher is replanting a few inches, which is the better way of handling it as an official.
A) Talk to the coach, let them know what's going on, they should know best how to deal with it. If you (the official) don't deem it making an impact on the game what's the point in calling it?
B) Call it every time you see it, because that's the rule. I'm sure after the first couple of times, she's probably going to freak out, tears are always a possibility, as are irate coaches and parents.
Which tact is better serving to my state goal? I maintain no matter what your goal, making this call all day er'day with younger ages is detrimental to the game itself. Now if we're in the 18 Gold championship, the "spirit of the rules" takes on a whole other meaning.
3. What is the purpose of not allowing replanting in the women's game when it's allowed in the men's game? I can honestly say, I have no idea. To me, it clearly gives an advantage to the pitcher and should not be allowed. However there is a reason why there are different rules from one gender to another as well as from one organization to another. Each different level has different purposes and focus. The easiest analogy I can draw is Football, NFHS makes rules based on education based sports, their focus is on safety and fair play. NCAA is a mix, loosely an education based athletics, with some degree of safety involved, but moving more into the entertainment realm. NFL is purely entertainment based athletics. Safety takes a backseat, with the exception of recent head trauma issues.
4. I have no idea what sanctioned body you're playing under, but the higher up the ladder you move, the more regulated the officials are. To be certain, regardless of the level, they are receiving some degree of input from their sanctioning body as to how games are called. Don't take my word for any of this, if this is that big of an issue in your mind, go talk to the UIC at your next tournament, ask what their take on this is. Ask if it's a POE, as if officials are being told to call it?
5. Lastly and I know this isn't what anyone wants to hear, perhaps the officials just missed it. Replanting would typically be called by the BU, maybe he's not watching? Or maybe it's a lower priority than watching the lead runner, then moving to the batter?

And in closing, I think the word you're looking for C77 is "libelous". If Hinky were to tell me C77 is brilliant that would be slander. But if Hinky writes that C77 is brilliant that's libel. I would have thought they'd have covered that in the Ivy League, I guess not.
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by C77fastpitch » Tue Jul 17, 2018 4:11 pm

Libelous- is not correct here! Slander is more appropriate. Hinky tries hard to demean me, not hurt my reputation. Most people don't give a # about this web-sight. You have some points, intelligently written but totally wrong. Rules are rules, the first thing any child should learn about a game. If you want to make cheat stepping and crow-hopping legal, then do so. Otherwise, call it, especially when it is obvious from the bleachers. Your doing no favors for the girls when you allow them to cheat. Have you seen men softball pitchers, they look more like they are trying out for the Olympic long jump team. If you write a non-demeaning intelligent post, I will be more than glad to debate you or anyone else about softball issues. Robert A Heinlein wrote- I never learn from a man who agreed with me.
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