Automatic out?

[DiamondDad]

Bases were loaded. One out. Deep fly ball to center field. Runners tag up and runner from third scores. Runner on second left early before catch. BU yells out, runner left before catch run doesn't score. End of inning. Was this his call or an appeal call? I thought the other team had to appeal for the out. Is it the umpires job to point this mistake out?

[SoCalASABlue]

Based on just the information in your OP, the BU overstepped his responsibility and handed an appeal to the defense on a silver platter. Unfortunately, you can't assume that the defense did not see the runner leaving early just because the BU yelled it out.

But since the BU has informed the defense that the runner left early, the appeal of the runner leaving early is really a formailty.

When an appeal is the third out and a force out, no runs shall score.

[Jalamander]

When an appeal is the third out and a force out, no runs shall score.

Strange you should say that. Speaking ASA, Rules Supplement #1-K Tag-ups. When a runner leaves a base too soon on a caught fly ball and returns in an attempt to retouch, this is considered a time play and not a force out. When the appeal is the third out, all runs scored, in advance of the appealed runner and prior to the legal appeal, count.

[SoCalASABlue]

Agreed Jalamander IF THE RUNNER ON 2B HAD TRIED TO GO BACK AND TAG UP...the original post did not say that is what occurred so I did not assume that is what happened...can only answer the situation as it is laid out by the OP...

[SnocatzDad]

Agreed Jalamander IF THE RUNNER ON 2B HAD TRIED TO GO BACK AND TAG UP...the original post did not say that is what occurred so I did not assume that is what happened...can only answer the situation as it is laid out by the OP...

Whether she attempted to return or not is irrelevant. An appeal is not a force, it's a timing play. If the BU called this out while the play was still live he should be ashamed of himself, it's not his call to make and it's up to the defense to make a live ball appeal (by throwing the ball to 2B) prior to the run crossing home. Runner attempting to return or not has no bearing on the timing.

If the BU called this out after play was over then clearly the run crosses before the appeal was made and the run scores. Again he should not make the call, the defense should make the appeal and he rules on it. Maybe he was anticipating the appeal(which he shouldn't), or heard one you didn't either way I don't see how the run doesn't score.

[THE MAD-DOG99]

Agreed Jalamander IF THE RUNNER ON 2B HAD TRIED TO GO BACK AND TAG UP...the original post did not say that is what occurred so I did not assume that is what happened...can only answer the situation as it is laid out by the OP...

Whether she attempted to return or not is irrelevant. An appeal is not a force, it's a timing play. If the BU called this out while the play was still live he should be ashamed of himself, it's not his call to make and it's up to the defense to make a live ball appeal (by throwing the ball to 2B) prior to the run crossing home. Runner attempting to return or not has no bearing on the timing.

If the BU called this out after play was over then clearly the run crosses before the appeal was made and the run scores. Again he should not make the call, the defense should make the appeal and he rules on it. Maybe he was anticipating the appeal(which he shouldn't), or heard one you didn't either way I don't see how the run doesn't score.

Agreed , we had this happen at the Sparkler. 2nd and 3rd, 2 out. Fly to center , R3 tags and scores. R 2 advances to 3rd. BU calls R2 out for leaving early after play has stopped.
3 outs , run counted. There was no appeal from the opposing team..?

[SoCalASABlue]

Seems the only constant in all responses to the OP is that the BU screwed up. Without all the facts involving ALL the runners since bases were loaded, we're all guessing.

[MTR]

Bases were loaded. One out. Deep fly ball to center field. Runners tag up and runner from third scores. Runner on second left early before catch. BU yells out, runner left before catch run doesn't score. End of inning. Was this his call or an appeal call? I thought the other team had to appeal for the out. Is it the umpires job to point this mistake out?

In NFHS about a decade ago, this would be correct. Today, speaking ASA, NFHS, NCAA and probably just about every other org. this is wrong. Yes, this would be an appeal play and no call made until the offended team appeals in a timely fashion.

Regardless of the bases being loaded and what info is offered, it is IMPOSSIBLE to have a force out any time the BR is a prior out**.

** Exception: When BR is ruled out for removing her helmet.

[Jalamander]

Seems the only constant in all responses to the OP is that the BU screwed up. Without all the facts involving ALL the runners since bases were loaded, we're all guessing.

Sounds pretty straight forward to me. What is there to guess about?
I echo MTR, once the fielder caught the ball, the force was removed. If there is a base left too soon by any one of the three runners,....it's a timing issue, not a force. Runs are scored or not scored based upon the timing of the appeal(s). And the appeal must come from the defense...the umpire should not be involved until the appeal is made. His job is to rule on the appeal.

[Jalamander]

Agreed Jalamander IF THE RUNNER ON 2B HAD TRIED TO GO BACK AND TAG UP...the original post did not say that is what occurred so I did not assume that is what happened...can only answer the situation as it is laid out by the OP...

Whether she attempted to return or not is irrelevant. An appeal is not a force, it's a timing play. If the BU called this out while the play was still live he should be ashamed of himself, it's not his call to make and it's up to the defense to make a live ball appeal (by throwing the ball to 2B) prior to the run crossing home. Runner attempting to return or not has no bearing on the timing.

If the BU called this out after play was over then clearly the run crosses before the appeal was made and the run scores. Again he should not make the call, the defense should make the appeal and he rules on it. Maybe he was anticipating the appeal(which he shouldn't), or heard one you didn't either way I don't see how the run doesn't score.

Agreed , we had this happen at the Sparkler. 2nd and 3rd, 2 out. Fly to center , R3 tags and scores. R 2 advances to 3rd. BU calls R2 out for leaving early after play has stopped.
3 outs , run counted. There was no appeal from the opposing team..?

Wow! Unless the two guys in Utah also did the Sparkler, we seem to have a number of umpires who need to bone up on their roles in the appeal process.