On Deck Headache

[jonriv]

I think "pepper" was used as a description rather than a definition

[fastpitchdad05]

It's what I always suspected...MTR never actually played sports, which is why he umps. What else could explain him not knowing what pepper is?

Far be it for me to speak on MTR's behalf, but I'm pretty sure the word "pepper" doesn't appear in the rule book. Officials have to rule on the game based on the rule book and it's definitions.

Hi Slapperdad,
The OP stated that the ball was hit foul in the air toward the on-deck batter in the on-deck circle and the on-deck batter "peppered" the ball (swung her bat and hit the ball into the fence) behind her.

Again, I do not know how the rule reads on this, but I would think even if it was unintentional that there should be a rule against the on-deck batter interfering in this manner.

Thanks,
FPDad05

[PDad]

Again, I do not know how the rule reads on this, but I would think even if it was unintentional that there should be a rule against the on-deck batter interfering in this manner.

If the umpire thought a fielder would have had a good chance to catch the ball (e.g. without a Top Ten Play) if not for the actions of the ODB, they should call interference and the batter would be out.

Are you saying the rules should allow an interference call when the defense had no opportunity to make an out? What would be the penalty?

[fastpitchdad05]

Again, I do not know how the rule reads on this, but I would think even if it was unintentional that there should be a rule against the on-deck batter interfering in this manner.

If the umpire thought a fielder would have had a good chance to catch the ball (e.g. without a Top Ten Play) if not for the actions of the ODB, they should call interference and the batter would be out.

Are you saying the rules should allow an interference call when the defense had no opportunity to make an out? What would be the penalty?

I'm not sure how exactly to write the rule, but I would think that a ball hit in the air foul near the on-deck circle would be playable by the catcher most times and I would hate to leave it up to the umpire's judgement.

But if you insist...

[MTR]

How in the world is it not a live ball?

Really?

It's what I always suspected...MTR never actually played sports, which is why he umps. What else could explain him not knowing what pepper is?

Well, I guess I shouldn't be surprised. The ignorant usually attack the person, not the discussion.

Pepper is a game used to practice defensive reactions, one I played as early as 1958. A game, not an action or swing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2lqU2ESp9Q

[fastpitchdad05]

How in the world is it not a live ball?

Really?

It's what I always suspected...MTR never actually played sports, which is why he umps. What else could explain him not knowing what pepper is?

Well, I guess I shouldn't be surprised. The ignorant usually attack the person, not the discussion.

Pepper is a game used to practice defensive reactions, one I played as early as 1958. A game, not an action or swing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2lqU2ESp9Q

You were the one unnecessarily "attacking the person, not the discussion" by trying to erroneously say that the OP was misusing the word pepper. Everyone else knew what the OP meant by "pepper' so why didn't you?

Google "peppering the ball" if you are still confused. You'll find many, many examples of the use of that term (post 1958) to mean the action of batting a ball, not just the game/drill we played/used as kids.

The ball is live until the umpire rules it dead. I doubt he did that until the on-deck batter struck the ball, but it is possible.

[slapperdad]

It's what I always suspected...MTR never actually played sports, which is why he umps. What else could explain him not knowing what pepper is?

Far be it for me to speak on MTR's behalf, but I'm pretty sure the word "pepper" doesn't appear in the rule book. Officials have to rule on the game based on the rule book and it's definitions.

Hi Slapperdad,
The OP stated that the ball was hit foul in the air toward the on-deck batter in the on-deck circle and the on-deck batter "peppered" the ball (swung her bat and hit the ball into the fence) behind her.

Again, I do not know how the rule reads on this, but I would think even if it was unintentional that there should be a rule against the on-deck batter interfering in this manner.

Thanks,
FPDad05

I totally get the context man, and follow the discussion. As we've found out MTR did in fact know what pepper is, as I'm sure all of us do. However, in his explanation of his ruling, officials don't have the luxury of using language that isn't in the rule book. Let me try this another way, I'm a veteran Football official. The word "lateral" is often thrown about by players, coaches, and fans. Under NF and NCAA code (unless it's changed I have not worked college in several years) there is no term/definition of the word "lateral" with regards to a backward pass. We have two kinds of passes, forward and backward, each with their own distinct definition. So even though in a discussion the term lateral may be thrown out there, my explanation is bound by the rule book, which does not contain that word.

Rest assured, there is a rule against the on-deck batter interfering with a hit ball.

Under NF code:
2-2-2 . . . Batted Ball. A batted ball is any pitch that comes in contact with the bat. Contact may result in a fair or foul ball and need not be intentional.
2-32-1 . . .Interference is an act (physical or verbal) by a member of the team at bat who illegally impedes, hinders or confuses any fielder; or when a runner creates malicious contact with any fielder with or without the ball, in or out of the baseline.
7-5-4 . . . The on-deck batter shall not commit interference with the defensive team.
PENALTIES: (Art. 4)

2. When the interference is with a fair batted or foul fly ball, the batter is out. When, in the judgment of the umpire, the interference prevented a possible double play, the runner closest to home shall also be declared out. Other runners return to the last base touched at the time of the interference.

No use of the word "pepper", yet the rule book covers it nicely. This was the point I was trying to make regarding MTR's comment about not knowing what pepper is.

The original poster stated this was a CIF game. I have no idea what code CIF plays with, I took a stab that it was NF. Your mileage may vary.

[MTR]

You were the one unnecessarily "attacking the person, not the discussion" by trying to erroneously say that the OP was misusing the word pepper. Everyone else knew what the OP meant by "pepper' so why didn't you?

Everyone? That was one helluva quick poll you took to determine that of all the posters here that I was the only one. And yeah, an obvious personal attack by clearly stating that I didn't understand what you meant by "pepper the ball" Thank god you don't exaggerate.

Google "peppering the ball" if you are still confused. You'll find many, many examples of the use of that term (post 1958) to mean the action of batting a ball, not just the game/drill we played/used as kids.

Yeah, and if you google hook slide you will get a fair amount of examples from baseball and softball that I have always known and had been taught as a "reach back".

Here, let me add to your entertainment. Until 8-9 years ago, never heard of a rundown being referred to as a pickle. We called it a .......wait for it......rundown.

The ball is live until the umpire rules it dead. I doubt he did that until the on-deck batter struck the ball, but it is possible.

The ball is dead the instant it touches any article or person on or over foul ground other than a defender and does not require an umpire to rule it as such.

[Fredegar]

C'mon FP05. Of course there has to be umpire judgment on all such foul balls. What if there's a smoking liner that nails the on-deck batter? INT? Of course not. At some point, there's a gray area between it being a play-able ball or not. Thus, there will (and should) always be umpire judgment on such plays. As with all judgment calls, it's your prerogative to disagree.

Again, I do not know how the rule reads on this, but I would think even if it was unintentional that there should be a rule against the on-deck batter interfering in this manner.

If the umpire thought a fielder would have had a good chance to catch the ball (e.g. without a Top Ten Play) if not for the actions of the ODB, they should call interference and the batter would be out.

Are you saying the rules should allow an interference call when the defense had no opportunity to make an out? What would be the penalty?

I'm not sure how exactly to write the rule, but I would think that a ball hit in the air foul near the on-deck circle would be playable by the catcher most times and I would hate to leave it up to the umpire's judgement.

But if you insist...

[exD1dad]

Hey MTR I was playing pickle in Detroit as early as 1966 , never called it a rundown but pepper? well didn't start that until '68 when the Tigers won the world series & they painted all the mailboxes & fire hydrants Tiger black & Orange

Now look at what was the 4th largest city in the country back then