Pitch Count

[crashsdaddy]

This weekend we had a situation where the pitch count from the plate umpire did not match what we had in our two books (paper and Game Changer). We asked that he check with the other team. He would not. He checked with the field ump who had the same count as he did and so he resumed play refusing to check with the other teams book.

Fast forward to the next day. Same ump team, same field, even the same opponent. Same situation. The other team challenges, plate ump ask the field ump for his count and they differ by two counts! Now he checks with both teams books and...both umps have the wrong count. One was short one pitch and the other was one to many. Earlier in this game and before this happened I caught the field ump using hand signs with the plate ump requesting him to show the count again and checking his own count and adjusting his because he was off.

We had this happen again in a third game with a different ump and he went to the books on both team books immediately and he was off by one as well.

So my question is this. What is the requirement when there is a challenge on the pitch count? We were playing USFA but I'd like to know the rules for USFA and ASA for future reference.

Thanks

[GIMNEPIWO]

By ' pitch count ' I am deducing that you mean the count on the batter ... Since it is the Plate Umpires job to call "balls & strikes" and they are in charge, they will make final decision on what the count on the batter is ... I know of no rule in any game where the Plate Umpire is required by rule to check with anyone on the count that they have ... However ... If I am Plate Umpire and I am questioned on my count, I will ask my Field Umpire(s) ... If we have the same count, play on ... If we have different counts I will go to the home team, which is typically the official score book ... If again, we have a different count I will go to the visiting team ... After getting all of the counts, I will make a decision on what the count is and restart the game at that count ... If I am the Field Umpire and I think I may have missed a pitch or hit my clicker in error ... Yes, I will signal to the plate Umpire to get their count and adjust my clicker ... If I am the Field Umpire and know for sure that the Plate Umpire has the wrong count ... I will call time and conference with them to see if they agree with me ... But again, the Plate Umpires count is the official count ...

[crashsdaddy]

Thanks for the replay. I knew the PU had the final say but wanted to know if we had some mechanism of forcing a book check with the home team just in case. Usually, the crews we had this weekend are really good but it's early in the season and everyone is knocking the rust off. Umps included.

[UmpSteve]

Thanks for the replay. I knew the PU had the final say but wanted to know if we had some mechanism of forcing a book check with the home team just in case. Usually, the crews we had this weekend are really good but it's early in the season and everyone is knocking the rust off. Umps included.

Scorebooks have no official standing relative to the count. If the umpires agree on the count, that is the end of the subject; even if they are wrong. The book (or books) cannot overrule them.

That said, if there is doubt in the umpires' minds, and IF (and that is a HUGE if) the books are actually tracking the pitches, they can be used to help reconstruct the sequence of pitches to enable the umpires to work it out. But, again, no official standing.

[crashsdaddy]

Thanks for the replay. I knew the PU had the final say but wanted to know if we had some mechanism of forcing a book check with the home team just in case. Usually, the crews we had this weekend are really good but it's early in the season and everyone is knocking the rust off. Umps included.

Scorebooks have no official standing relative to the count. If the umpires agree on the count, that is the end of the subject; even if they are wrong. The book (or books) cannot overrule them.

That said, if there is doubt in the umpires' minds, and IF (and that is a HUGE if) the books are actually tracking the pitches, they can be used to help reconstruct the sequence of pitches to enable the umpires to work it out. But, again, no official standing.

I get that the books can't over rule the umpire. No issue there. I just wanted to know if there was a way to at least force a discussion. Apparently not. So be it. This is where being on an umps good side comes into play. Our catchers always work to protect the umps from wild pitches and we always have a cold bottle of water ready when they need it.

[MTR]

Its an INDICATOR.

A clicker is what a nun uses to offer direction to the students.

[tcannizzo]

Followed by a ruler.

[GIMNEPIWO]

Its an INDICATOR.

A clicker is what a nun uses to offer direction to the students.

No ... the Plate Ump has an indicator ... As the Field Ump I just have a clicker ... LOL

[crashsdaddy]

Its an INDICATOR.

A clicker is what a nun uses to offer direction to the students.

No ... the Plate Ump has an indicator ... As the Field Ump I just have a clicker ... LOL

So long as the indicator and clicker read the same correct count, everyone is happy.

[MTR]

Its an INDICATOR.

A clicker is what a nun uses to offer direction to the students.

No ... the Plate Ump has an indicator ... As the Field Ump I just have a clicker ... LOL

So, you're a nun?