Scoring Question. Fielder's Choice or Base Hit?

[Coach11]

I totally disagree. If you have a slow runner at 1B and a very fast slapper at bat, a perfectly placed slap to SS would allow the play to be made for an out at 2B while there would have been no chance to get the batter at 1B. By your definition, this is a hit. Not by the rules most of us play by. The answer to the original post is FC without a question.

How do you ("most of us") score a perfectly placed slap that the BR beats out?

[27's Dad]

I totally disagree. If you have a slow runner at 1B and a very fast slapper at bat, a perfectly placed slap to SS would allow the play to be made for an out at 2B while there would have been no chance to get the batter at 1B. By your definition, this is a hit. Not by the rules most of us play by. The answer to the original post is FC without a question.

How do you ("most of us") score a perfectly placed slap that the BR beats out?

It's a hit unless arunner is thrown out on a force play at another base. In that case, FC.

[Coach11]

That makes ABSOLUTELY no sense at all.

[Mick]

Hey Spazsdad:

What does the BOOK say about this one?

Runners on first and second with two outs. Batter hits a ground ball to the left of the shortstop. As the shortstop is moving to field the ball the runner on second makes contact with her while attempting to go to third. Runner is ruled out for interference. What do you credit the batter with? FC or hit?

[PDad]

You are leaving out the key element: "but the batter would have been out had the initial play been made at first".

The term itself....Fielders "Choice", requires that the option to put the batter out exists.

Take that option away, and it is no longer a choice. The fielder is making the only available play after the hit.

FC is correct. The rule has 3 situations and your "key element" only applies to the third one:

3. when a ball is put in play where a play is made on any lead runner and
an out occurs,
or an out would have occurred had no error taken place,
or the runner is safe, but the batter would have been out had the initial play been made at first,

[Coach11]

You are leaving out the key element: "but the batter would have been out had the initial play been made at first".

The term itself....Fielders "Choice", requires that the option to put the batter out exists.

Take that option away, and it is no longer a choice. The fielder is making the only available play after the hit.

FC is correct. The rule has 3 situations and your "key element" only applies to the third one:

3. when a ball is put in play where a play is made on any lead runner and
an out occurs,
or an out would have occurred had no error taken place,
or the runner is safe, but the batter would have been out had the initial play been made at first,

You're misreading it...

3. when a ball is put in play where a play is made on any lead runner and:

(a) an out occurs, or

(b)an out would have occurred had no error taken place, or

(c)the runner is safe,

but the batter would have been out had the initial play been made at first,

It applies to all three scenarios.

You do not take away what WOULD HAVE BEEN a hit, because a fielder chooses to make a play elsewhere.

You simply don't credit a batter with a hit because a fielder chose to make a different play.

[NuggDawg]

You're misreading it...

3. when a ball is put in play where a play is made on any lead runner and:
(a) an out occurs, or
(b)an out would have occurred had no error taken place, or
(c)the runner is safe,
but the batter would have been out had the initial play been made at first,
It applies to all three scenarios.
You do not take away what WOULD HAVE BEEN a hit, because a fielder chooses to make a play elsewhere.
You simply don't credit a batter with a hit because a fielder chose to make a different play.

Sorry, Coach 11, you have this perfectly wrong.

Exact wording is:

Credit a fielder's choice

1. when a ball is put in play where a preceding runner if forced out on the hit, or would have been forced out had no error occurred. [From ATEC scoring guide for fastpitch. NCAA softball almost identical wording but same intent.]

END OF STORY. 8-6 putout. FC to the batter.

The #3 definition you quote only applies when a lead runner is safe. Not the case in the OP.

[PDad]

This is from the criteria for a hit from MLB's Official Rules for scoring:

10.05 (b) The official scorer shall not credit a base hit when a:
(1) runner is forced out by a batted ball, or would have been forced out except for a fielding error;
...
(4) fielder fails in an attempt to put out a preceding runner and, in the scorer’s judgment, the batter-runner could have been put out at first base;

The batter-runner clause only applies on a failed attempt to put out a preceding runner.

Bottom line, it is not a hit because a preceding runner was forced out.

[NuggDawg]

That makes ABSOLUTELY no sense at all.

Coach 11,

You're absolutely right. Makes no sense at all, and it's completely unfair. But it is what it is. Both major fastpitch scoring guides score an FC when a forced lead runner is put out.

[NuggDawg]

Hey Spazsdad:

What does the BOOK say about this one?

Runners on first and second with two outs. Batter hits a ground ball to the left of the shortstop. As the shortstop is moving to field the ball the runner on second makes contact with her while attempting to go to third. Runner is ruled out for interference. What do you credit the batter with? FC or hit?

When interference causes an out and a dead ball, consider if the batter would have been out if an initial play, without interference, would have put out the BR. Hit if BR would have been safe on a play to 1st, but FC if not.