Thought on this instructional video excerpt

[TNSoftballDad]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UqbfaUehJc

I'd like to hear what the resident experts have to say about this video. I have some initial observations and guess it's time to see how much I have learned from spending too much time on forums like these while at work.

[ssarge]

I'd like to hear what the resident experts have to say about this video. I have some initial observations and guess it's time to see how much I have learned from spending too much time on forums like these while at work.

TNSoftballDad:

We all know work is over-rated.


I'm no expert, but am happy to share some observations. And I'm sorry my response got so long. Kind of just organizing my own thouights as I wrote it. Probably meanders a bit, and touches on a lot of things. Hopefully, there is some value for you, and hopefully some value somewhere within for others.


I would say that there are ELEMENTS of validity to this instructional approach - just as there is to most approaches. As is often the case, I believe these is much which would probably prove detrimental as well.

I am concerned that there is a complete disregard for posture. No torso tilt on any of these kids, and most are WAY too vertical. No sense of "connecting" the arms to the body whatsoever. Most of the hitters on the video arch their backs as they near contact, and lean away (weight goes back onto their heels). This is consistent with the "pushing" approach being advocated (in many ways) by the instructor. Generally, when I see a hitter arching her back, I find it is because the brain senses that bat speed is slowing before contact, and it causes the body to make one last desperate attempt to propel the hands forward and regain the bat speed (this is sub-optimal in SO many ways). Or it's because the hitter is trying to clear out of the way to create room for the hands and bat to get through the ball. Of course, elite hitters accomplish this far differently. They do it by tightening the swing radius, which whips the end of the bat and ADDS bat speed. An enormously different approach and concept. (And even this can be accomplished in many ways, but the best hitters set it up early in the swing and complete it through reversing the scap load (abduction / adduction of the scapular complex). In short, they stretch the front shoulder blade away from the spine as they load, and horizontally "pinch" the rear shoulder blade towards the spine. And they reverse these movements as they unload. ANd almost no hitter does this consciously or could describe it. But they do it, learning it through trial and error. Because nothing else solves so many elements of the swing puzzle so elegantly.

Terrible upper body counter-rotation (instead of load) in virtually every kid on the video, and on the instructor(?) (adult with the blue shirt). You will never see an elite hitter turn his / her upper body inward, as is demonstrated on this video (in some cases, it is almost a 90 degree turn). Instead, elite hitters load their hips, and load their shoulders (the scapular comples load described above). The belly buttons of elite hitters always stay basically pointed at the plate - the torso does not turn inward. Contrast this to what you'll see on the video - belly buttons pointed back almost towards the catcher.

Huge bat drag on almost every swing (hands behind rear elbow as the hitter turns the corner). IF a hitter does this, it better be for a very short time (less than 1 frame - 0.03 seconds - of video). And their hands had better still be in plane with the shoulders (easy to see - either the rear forearm is basically vertical - good - or it's not. And if it is not, the hitter is in trouble.) Allowing the hands to trail the rear elbow DOES let the bat whip, which adds power. Sounds pretty good. But it creates way too much of a trade-off. Because it unfortunately also makes the swing develop much more slowly - again, no QUICKNESS (short elapsed time from launch to contact). Slowly developing swings have to be started sooner, meaning the hitter has less pitch telemetry. Doesn't matter when pitches are all pretty much the same speed, and when they don't move much. Matters a lot as pitchers begin to demonstrate these skills, however.

Mostly squishing the bug (see previous thread on this subject), though the narrator stresses getting weight to the front side. And demonstrates it with sliding hips (what he describes as "thrust"). Kind of the right idea, BUT. . . .In reality, the hips should NOT slide / thrust forward, but rather the mass should shift forward creating momentum. This is not parsing of words or arguing nits - it is a VERY different concept than weight shift.


In short (and on a quasi-positive note), these techniques will probably bring an immediate increase in power to most kids. And they'll hit more balls on a line, and less on the ground. Which is certainly good, since ground balls are generally outs at any meaningful level of play. But swing QUICKNESS (elapsed time) will not be good, and the swing - as demonstrated - has no chance of standing up to pitching in elite youth travel ball, much less HS / college. Variability of pitch speed and pitch movement will kill these swings.

In fairness, there is no way to tell what the instructor might teach to more advanced kids. Maybe there are different points of emphasis, and these concerns (I've just scratched the surface of potential concerns) may be addressed. But it would surprise me - a lot. If you could speak with the guy on the video, it wouldn't surprise me if he would acknowledge some of what I have detailed here, but then move on to say that everything I am describing are advanced skills which can be learned later. But that "it is important to get kids swinging with some success as early as possible."

And that line of reasoning can indeed resonate. I get the appeal. But I see three potential problems in this reasoning for female hitters:

1) Despite the conventional wisdom to the contrary, there is very strong evidence that complex motor skills are far more readily learned when the hitter is young - say under 12. Very analagous to learning a second language - the younger, the better. The sentiments of "see the ball, hit the ball," and "let them play until they get older or in high school, then begin to develop the skills" sounds good and right, and very "progressive." In the real world, it doesn't work as efficiently, though, and that is just the way it is.

2) Female FP - unlike youth BB - pits the hitter against a pitcher who is demonstrating a pretty good subset of elite pitching at a much younger age. I have no idea of the ACTUAL percentiles(the following is illustrative only). But if Osterman is 98 on a scale of ultimate pitcher mastery, and Santana is the same in MLB baseball, the 12 YO female hitter - playing at elite levels - is seeing about a 50, and the baseball hitter is seeing about a 35. (Again, intended as illustrative, and it is just my opinion.) But I believe it inarguable that the female hitter has to demonstrate skills at a younger age just to continue to earn a place to play at an elite level.

3) It is ALWAYS appropriate to start young hitters with only a subset of the eventual necessary skills set. Learning to hit is a progression. But this can be done without having to unlearn the foundational skills and re-learn new ones. Doing that takes WAY longer, and may not even work. You can certainly always get it to "work "on a Tee, and in controlled, highly repetitive drills. But that is so different from a 1/4 second reaction time window with huge pitch variability. Kids in that kind of a chaos environment tend to revert to what they first learned. It can take years to end this kind of reversion, and to wean kids from the originally learned skills in a challenging reactive environment. And frankly, it sometimes just doesn;t happen, and the kid reaches a ceiling. HUGE complicator, and it just isn't necessary.


You could certainly do worse than what is being taught here, and undoubtably, many well. But you could do far better, too. Hitters embarking on the course outlined in the video will absolutely need to modify a lot as they progress to more challenging levels. That kind of modification IS universal for all hitters, and I don't mean to infer otherwise. But it is definitely a matter of degree. Learning to hit is a progression of developing skills, experience, trial-and-error, etc. To the greatest extent possible, I believe hitters are better served in learning proper movement, movement pattens, and mechanics from day one. I'm sure others will find elements of that with which to disagree, and I respect their opinions. But I am also certain there will come a day - for hitters such as those on this video - when the piper needs to be paid. And to force the analogy, I think it could be pre-paid at a far more econmomical price. And I think that this very conundrum - far more than burnout or other factors - is what dissuades kids from continuing in the sport. Let's face it - if you can't hit against the pitching typical in the level at which you find yourself, it just is no longer a fun endeavor. I think FAR more kids self extract from BB / FP because of lack of success - and MUCH of this is because of inadequate mechanics - than ever burn out or get bored.

My $.02.

Best regards,

Scott

[FPdaddy]

Scott,

That was more like $.03 than $.02! LOL

I have two kids...10 and 12, started them on the path to the "elite" or "MLB" type swing two years ago. We started VERY simply. #1-POSTURE, POSTURE, POSTURE! We stayed on that until the "athletic" position replaced "standing straight up" as the prefered starting position. #2 CONNECTION. We drilled the "feeling" of HOLDING ONTO THE DAMN BAT and using their middle to turn. #3 once they achieved posture and could connect the bat to the body, we worked on LOADING the body properly so it would UNLOAD properly. This took A LOT of work, but has been worth every second.

I would also like to agree with your point regarding the pitching difference between baseball and fastpitch. The typical 12U TB girl is a far better pitcher than the typical 12U TB boy.

Keith

[Tucson]

I did like that the young men are hanging onto the bat throughout their follow through, I hear too often that "it doesn't matter what happens after you hit the ball." Well, if you are pulled off balance, it does. If you hit the catcher with the bat, it does. If you fling the bat against the fence it does.

I second the comment that there is huge bat drag on some of the hitters.

But, there are some good tips here. Just combine them with what you are trying to achieve.

[ssarge]

I would also like to agree with your point regarding the pitching difference between baseball and fastpitch. The typical 12U TB girl is a far better pitcher than the typical 12U TB boy.

Yes. To be clear, I strongly believe that the overall challenge of hitting at the highest levels of baseball is greater (than it is for SB), for a number of reasons. But I also believe that the young hitter in SB is seeing pitching - at a young age - which requires her to have a bigger percentage of her ultimate possible hitting skill. Starting at age 12 or so, when the hitter is playing 14U. And many girls playing Gold ball at age 15 (or so) are already seeing pitchers who are returning from their first year of playing D1 softball. That would never happen in BB.

Regards,

Scott

[ssarge]

Just combine them with what you are trying to achieve.

I understand this is sincere advice, and I am certain many people - probablyy the majority - look at it this way. Certainly, NO ONE can get all their input from ONE source, so to some extent, we all do this.

But I would urge huge caution. Let me illustrate why.


The quality of instruction - and the uniformity of instruction - in golf, is light years ahead of BB / FP instruction. It's like quantum physics compared to Algebra I or something.

Within the past couple years, Jim Hardy's book, The Plane Truth About Golfers has begun to revolutionize golf instruction. Hardy's premise is that BASICALLY, there are 2 types of golf swing - one-plane or two-plane. Not important to describe both, it IS important to recognize that the optimal mechanical advice / instruction for the two swing types is WAY different. But historically has been given interchangeably. Meaning a golfer had about a 50% chance of any one piece of advanced advice / instruction being appropriate for his swing type. And a pretty good chance that the other 50% of the advice is completely wrong, and probably HARMFUL.

Ouch.

And again, this in a sport where instruction is FAR more advanced than in our sport.

Mixing-and-matching instruction is very risky ecumenicalism, unless you REALLY know what you are doing.

Again. my $02.

Best regards,

Scott

[Skarp]

Again. my $02.

For those who aren't aware, or who haven't figured it out from reading his posts, Scott's $.02 is worth more than the entire bankroll of any other 5 posters on here (or any 50 on Eteamz).

[TNSoftballDad]

Again. my $02.

For those who aren't aware, or who haven't figured it out from reading his posts, Scott's $.02 is worth more than the entire bankroll of any other 5 posters on here (or any 50 on Eteamz).

No kidding. I'm going to start posting some sort of hitting thread every day or so just so I can read ssarge's responses and go to school.

[jofus]

Again. my $02.

For those who aren't aware, or who haven't figured it out from reading his posts, Scott's $.02 is worth more than the entire bankroll of any other 5 posters on here (or any 50 on Eteamz).

I agree

Although, I'm far from an expert, and I was cringing at some of the swings in that video, especially the ones with very bad bat drag, and the ones with the lead arm going straight at launch. That's what my 9 year old is doing right now, and I hope to change it this spring.

[Judd]

Any good videos or instructions on how to teach basic hitting? I mean for girls that have never picked up a bat and swing it like they are swatting flies? I think I have the basics but want to make sure I get them started on the right path?

Heres what I think is right
knuckles lined up
Bat back
As the pitch comes in, pull hands back, take a small step, and explode with the hips. My DD's instructor calls it, pull, stride, and explode
I also am trying to get them to get their hands to the ball.

Any videos or instructions or drills would be great. Remember this is not 18U Gold, this is 12U rec and half of them have never played. I just want to start them right