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Why Coaches are no longer respected.

What's on your mind?

by extiger » Tue May 24, 2016 2:39 pm

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by GIMNEPIWO » Wed May 25, 2016 4:43 am

I certainly agree ... Mostly ... And yes it begins at home ... But I don't need a Mother or Father charging the field to call out their kid for throwing a bat :roll: ... I've already taken care of it, parents watch the game.
I do get some resistance at first from Newbies about holding their kids accountable ... (She will miss practice today because her pet turtle tank needs to be cleaned) ... I usually have to make an example of someone early on ... But for the most part everyone accepts and supports my policies ... Each year there seems to be one family that just doesn't get it and they're sent packing.
"For the strength of the pack is the wolf, the strength of the wolf is the pack" Rudyard Kipling
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by catcherzrule » Wed May 25, 2016 10:27 am

Good article...sadly, the same can be said for teachers these days too. No respect, lack of "fear" (not as in being afraid, but again the idea of respect), and kids feel entitled. If they are this way in the classroom, it is because they are allowed to be this way at home and it will always translate on to the field. Hell, at least coaches DO have some ability to make kids run, do burpies, something...teachers have meaningless pieces of paper to send a kid to detention or even worse, suspension which is essentially a mini-vacation. :roll:

Heard a great speech last night at my DD baccalaureate ceremony in which the senior English teacher reminded them...

"Be vigilant against entitlement."
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by Cannonball » Wed May 25, 2016 11:30 am

Saw a team win its 3rd tournament in a row. As with the first two tournament wins, parents lined up to complain after the game. In fact, one parent was heard to say that the team has not learned anything and the coaching staff doesn't know what it is doing.
Granny said sonny stick to your guns if you believe in something no matter what because it's better to be hated for who you are than to be loved for who you're not.

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by jtat32 » Wed May 25, 2016 2:13 pm

There's definitely some truth to this article, but I certainly don't agree with it 100%. I'd like to read the original LA Times article that it refers to, but it requires a paid subscription.

Parents definitely are much more intrusive on coaches than they were when I was growing up. I think softball and baseball are particularly prone to this just because of the nature of the games. Lot's of time to sit around and second guess umpires and coaches. Everyone has an opinion on strategy and parents sitting in the stands don't get the corrective feedback that coaches get when their strategy fails, so they remain experts in their minds. I remember running to the bathroom between innings once and a parent caught me on the way out of the dugout and said "great job, but you've got your outfielders way too shallow." On the way back, another caught me on my way back into the dugout and said "great job, but you've got your outfielders way to deep." You just shut it out.

That said, this author (or I guess the LA Times author) suggests that players don't respect their coaches because they no longer fear them. First of all, I had very few issues with players' behavior in my coaching career. Parents yes, players not so much. Regardless, instilling fear is not how to gain players' respect, and it doesn't make them play better. My girls have played for yellers that they respected, with one notable exception, but that respect came because these coaches knew the game and backed up their yelling with quality instruction, not because they feared them.

The notable exception was their HS coach, who really only had one coaching tool - creating an environment of fear and intimidation. This guy introduced himself to the team (players and parents) by saying "I don't lose games, players lose games. I win games." Then went on to describe how he was going to bring accountability to the program. He banned players from having any contact with their travel teams during the season, and tried to recruit my girls to bully the freshmen and "put them in their place" at tryouts. He made arbitrary decisions just to make sure everyone knew he was in charge and maintain the environment of fear and "respect". Any attempt at player input was punished and he pitched one of my girls repeatedly after she told him her shoulder was hurting. This lead to a long term injury and was totally unnecessary - my other daughter was an equal/better pitcher. It certainly wasn't necessary to keep her in the circle when she was clearly in pain and we were winning 18-0. We didn't complain to the AD or anyone else, but my girls had no respect for this coach and decided that they weren't going to play for him any longer. The team went from winning most of their games to losing all of them.

The uses Bear Bryant's Junction Boys and their national championship as an example of the benefits of extreme disciplinarian coaching to "toughen up" the athletes - it is a poor example. John Wooden had a more impressive coaching legacy and achieved it without these methods. The Junction Boys only won one game and were Bryant's worst team. Bryant supposedly carried a lifetime of heavy guilt about the way he treated that team and struggled to resolve it before his guilt. And yes, the author is correct that a coach who practiced his team in extreme heat for 16 hours a day while depriving them of water breaks would probably be arrested today. They should be, players have died from stupid stunts like that.

If this coach/author is reliant on fear and intimidation to maintain the "respect" of his players, and is finding inspiration in the Junction Boys episode, then the family member he cites as calling him a bully may be on to something.
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by PDad » Wed May 25, 2016 2:42 pm

jtat32 wrote:There's definitely some truth to this article, but I certainly don't agree with it 100%. I'd like to read the original LA Times article that it refers to, but it requires a paid subscription.
...
That said, this author (or I guess the LA Times author) suggests that players don't respect their coaches because they no longer fear them. ...

If this coach/author is reliant on fear and intimidation to maintain the "respect" of his players, and is finding inspiration in the Junction Boys episode, then the family member he cites as calling him a bully may be on to something.

The LAT article, Time for coaches and parents to stop athletes' bad behavior, does talk about fear, however its message is more about not being scared to hold kids accountable. Here are some excerpts.

It's past time for coaches to start striking a little fear into their players, and for parents to start holding themselves and their sons and daughters accountable for bad behavior.
...
What's baffling is that some athletes no longer respect their coaches. In the old days, you were so scared to make your coach mad that no one had to worry about players leaving a bench or a fan taunting an official. The coach's stare or the coach's voice would bring an immediate halt to bad behavior.

Not anymore. Some people say transferring has become so rampant that coaches have seen their authority diminished. A coach yells at an athlete or puts him on the bench, and Mom or Dad's response is, "So long."

"Let's rewind 35, 40 years ago," said Dr. Andrew Yellen, a sports psychologist and former high school football coach. "You could be 100 yards from a teacher and if the teacher said, 'Stop,' you'd stop. We're dealing with a situation where across the board, there's just not respect for authority as before. You have that Robert De Niro, 'Hey, you talking to me?' in your face."

Yellen said parents have come into his office seeking help about bad behavior from their children. He tells them to demand accountability.

"But they won't like me,"
is one popular response.
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by GIMNEPIWO » Thu May 26, 2016 3:45 am

PDad wrote:
jtat32 wrote:There's definitely some truth to this article, but I certainly don't agree with it 100%. I'd like to read the original LA Times article that it refers to, but it requires a paid subscription.
...
That said, this author (or I guess the LA Times author) suggests that players don't respect their coaches because they no longer fear them. ...

If this coach/author is reliant on fear and intimidation to maintain the "respect" of his players, and is finding inspiration in the Junction Boys episode, then the family member he cites as calling him a bully may be on to something.

The LAT article, Time for coaches and parents to stop athletes' bad behavior, does talk about fear, however its message is more about not being scared to hold kids accountable. Here are some excerpts.

It's past time for coaches to start striking a little fear into their players, and for parents to start holding themselves and their sons and daughters accountable for bad behavior.
...
What's baffling is that some athletes no longer respect their coaches. In the old days, you were so scared to make your coach mad that no one had to worry about players leaving a bench or a fan taunting an official. The coach's stare or the coach's voice would bring an immediate halt to bad behavior.

Not anymore. Some people say transferring has become so rampant that coaches have seen their authority diminished. A coach yells at an athlete or puts him on the bench, and Mom or Dad's response is, "So long."

"Let's rewind 35, 40 years ago," said Dr. Andrew Yellen, a sports psychologist and former high school football coach. "You could be 100 yards from a teacher and if the teacher said, 'Stop,' you'd stop. We're dealing with a situation where across the board, there's just not respect for authority as before. You have that Robert De Niro, 'Hey, you talking to me?' in your face."

Yellen said parents have come into his office seeking help about bad behavior from their children. He tells them to demand accountability.

"But they won't like me,"
is one popular response.


Actually had a Grand Parent (Guardian of this athlete) ask me to tell her that the doctor said she had to sit out for a week to 10 days because he was afraid to tell her .... He sent her to practice as if everything was fine :roll:
"For the strength of the pack is the wolf, the strength of the wolf is the pack" Rudyard Kipling
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by jtat32 » Thu May 26, 2016 2:28 pm

Thanks PDad. Apparently this author misquoted the LA Times, then:

There is a phrase in the article that really got me thinking, and prompted me to write this article. He says “What’s so baffling is why athletes no longer fear their coaches.”


I don't know this guy, so no idea if he truly equates fear with respect, or if he just made an editorial mistake, but there are certainly plenty of HS coaches out there that have that mindset. These coaches don't have the character to inspire kids, so they have to rely on fear as a crutch. They can get away with it because the kids in HS don't have a choice who they play for.

To be clear, I'm not talking about tough, demanding coaches who have high expectations for player conduct, team commitment, and work ethic. My kids dragged our family into softball, and we went along with it because we thought it was a good environment to learn a strong work ethic and self-accountability. Good coaches demand that AND demonstrate it.

BTW, here's a couple of clips of Bear Bryant interacting with his players during the period that he was winning national championships. I don't see the coaching style that the author is trying to make a case for, I see the kind of coach I want my kids to play for. I also like the QB change he makes in the second one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVzETb9FSMw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3VTk0cEQB8

I don't buy the argument that there is something wrong with this generation. I think they're the better than we were at their age in a lot of regards. If there is, though, WE raised them, taught them, and coached them. This author sees a problem with how his players function on his team and finds fault with everyone else but himself. If you're going to preach accountability, you need to practice it yourself.
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by exD1dad » Thu May 26, 2016 3:41 pm

LA Times Eric Soundheimer covers SoCal HS sports since '97 & arguably has covered more blue chip athletes than any other writer nationwide
"It's not giving up if you discover you've been chasing the wrong destiny" -Morley LA street artist who posted this on Melrose Avenue in Jan '14
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by ontheblack » Thu May 26, 2016 6:43 pm

I think he meant fear in the same manner the word is used with the term "Fear of God" which wikipedia describes as "the idea of living in respect, awe, and submission".

The game has also changed. Parents drop a metric crapload of dough for sports now, so many feel they are stakeholders. But they aren't. You also dont have to play for a Rico ("sit down, write the check, and stfu") to get a scholarship. Not that he would take a kid with this attitude anyway.

Finally, we dont have a society that values civility or respect anymore. Kids model what they see.
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