Question about Friendlies

[Sam]

So now you change your argument from no obligation to support it to I'll buy it if the food is good. Then you go to the stupid argument that your team would spend $600 at a friendly anyway...so go ahead and host a tournament. You obviously have never hosted a friendly. Most teams don't even make $400 a day hosting and running a snack bar from 8:00AM to 4:00PM. I can't think of any teams in SoCal that run snack bars with bad food...almost everybody has breakfast burritos, carne asada tacos, rice bowls, and/or salads. If you can stomach anything on the menu, buy it....or host your own friendly. They are a ton of work....but you wouldn't know that.

And don't give me the "we bring 40-50 people with us for a friendly" crap. Even if you did, the TEAM would spend $400 on a tournament....and your "40-50 parents" would still spend extra money for food. Dumb argument...and if you had ever run a friendly you would have known that.

If teams decided not to run snack bars at friendlies, your TEAM will pay $80 per game and you will sit out there all day long with only the food your brought. The parents on your team who don't like to pack a bunch of crap to lug out there, will be wondering why the host doesn't have a snack bar....and why are we paying $250 for three games on a Sunday.

Sorry Sam, but that is the weakest post I've ever seen you make...and I've been reading your posts with interest for a long time now.

You sound like Karl Marx. Well I'm a bigger fan of Adam Smith...and since this is still America, I think I win this one. Do whatever you think you need to do to raise money for your team. Charge $80 per game, or whatever the hell you want to charge. Run a snack bar, don't run a snack bar...sell organic salad, sell nothing but ding-dongs, or sell nothing at all. It's all the same to me. I'll give you credit for being a big boy, and trust you to make the choices that you think are best for you. But I'll also require reciprocation. I get to make my own choices too. So if I want to buy your ding-dong I will, but don't lecture me about my having an obligation to do so. I'm not on here telling you how to run your friendly.

By the way, you can drop the holier-than-thou ruse. You don't run friendlies for the greater good. You run them because your team and your organization profit--both financially and in terms of playing experience. You host friendlies for selfish reasons, plain and simple--and we attend friendlies for selfish reasons. Judging from the volume of friendlies being hosted, this arrangement seems to work just fine.

Nobody said that friendlies were run for the greater good. They are fundraisers...which is the point of the post. If teams aren't making money running them...they go away....and then you start paying to play in tournaments all the time or you just don't play.

What you don't get is that it is a symbiotic relationship. You aren't just a customer who gets what they damn well want....because you are benefitting at least equally with the team that is hosting. The team hosting is a customer as well and if they aren't getting what they require from you, they will go elsewhere to find teams to play that actually actively support their snack bar.

Its great listening to people whine about things they've never actually attempted to do themselves. You didn't win a thing, friend....all of five people supported your weak position and I'm betting they're all 10U posters.

[Skarp]

You people are frickin amazing....oh, the food isn't healthy...its not a gameday meal....give me a break.

Well let's recap your argument, shall we. Everyone is supposed to spend their money with your snack bar whether or not it provides them with anything they want. Great argument. Definitely carries the day.

Its great listening to people whine about things they've never actually attempted to do themselves. You didn't win a thing, friend....all of five people supported your weak position and I'm betting they're all 10U posters.

I'll take 5 rational 10U posters in exchange for all the mindless sycophants that subscribe to your addled logic...not that they are exactly in abundance...review the thread. The funny thing here is that I drop more dough on crappy snack-bar food than any two average posters. I have a good-sized family, and I'm not exactly a penny-pincher. But I won't be told where or how I should spend my money...not by you or anyone else.

I do believe you have talked me out of buying snack bar food, if your sense of entitlement is representative of those hosting said operations.

[Sam]

You people are frickin amazing....oh, the food isn't healthy...its not a gameday meal....give me a break.

Well let's recap your argument, shall we. Everyone is supposed to spend their money with your snack bar whether or not it provides them with anything they want. Great argument. Definitely carries the day.

Its great listening to people whine about things they've never actually attempted to do themselves. You didn't win a thing, friend....all of five people supported your weak position and I'm betting they're all 10U posters.

I'll take 5 rational 10U posters in exchange for all the mindless sycophants that subscribe to your addled logic...not that they are exactly in abundance...review the thread. The funny thing here is that I drop more dough on crappy snack-bar food than any two average posters. I have a good-sized family, and I'm not exactly a penny-pincher. But I won't be told where or how I should spend my money...not by you or anyone else.

I do believe you have talked me out of buying snack bar food, if your sense of entitlement is representative of those hosting said operations.

Nobody really cares if YOU, in particular, support their snack bar. Teams know which other teams they want to invite to their friendlies and which teams don't get invited. Its not entitlement....its the symbiotic relationship...the one you don't quite understand. Nobody is saying that you have to buy every bit of food you consume on friendly day at the host's snack bar...just buy something...candy....seeds....a drink.....just about anything would do.

10U posters aren't rational...they don't know anything....and they're perfectly willing to tell you exactly what they don't know. Veterans are laughing too hard at you to actually post a response. I'm the veteran who has the composure to control my laughter and post at the same time.

[Skarp]

Nobody really cares if YOU, in particular, support their snack bar. Teams know which other teams they want to invite to their friendlies and which teams don't get invited. Its not entitlement....its the symbiotic relationship...the one you don't quite understand. Nobody is saying that you have to buy every bit of food you consume on friendly day at the host's snack bar...just buy something...candy....seeds....a drink.....just about anything would do.

10U posters aren't rational...they don't know anything....and they're perfectly willing to tell you exactly what they don't know. Veterans are laughing too hard at you to actually post a response. I'm the veteran who has the composure to control my laughter and post at the same time.

Okay, all-knowing-one. Control your laughter for a few more moments and answer a few questions for a simpleton.

1) Since $400 plus free playing time isn't enough for a host team to expect, how much, exactly, are we supposed to give you? How much do you deserve to make for the day? Be specific please.

2) Since we clearly owe you [insert your answer from Question 1], why don't you just charge us that for the friendly and be done with it?

3) How do you keep track of which teams sufficiently support your snack bar, so that you'll know who to black-ball in the future? Do you keep a chart, checking off sunflower seeds and such until each team either has or hasn't met its expected quota?

4) Symbiosis: a close ecological relationship between the individuals of two (or more) different species. Sometimes a symbiotic relationship benefits both species, sometimes one species benefits at the other's expense, and in other cases neither species benefits. I understand what symbiosis is--I just prefer the kind that benefits both species. You provide me with things I want, I'll gladly compensate you for them. You provide fields, teams and umps...we'll pay to play. You provide food and drink that we want, we'll pay to eat and drink. You want something for nothing, screw you--that benefits you only. Is that what you mean by a symbiotic relationship...we give you money "just because"?

5) Does your self-proclaimed "veteran" status mean you're always right, or does it just mean that you get to toss around ad hominems and fallacious appeals to (self-proclaimed) authority in lieu of viable arguments?

Thanks...just trying to get closer to wisdom.

[Skarp]

Oh, and don't think I didn't notice your surreptitious attempt to put the brakes on your own argument while simultaneously trying to feign victory. You've come a long way from "You people are frickin amazing....oh, the food isn't healthy...its not a gameday meal....give me a break" to "Geez...all I'm asking is that you buy a pack of sunflower seeds." Nice try.

[Sam]

Nobody really cares if YOU, in particular, support their snack bar. Teams know which other teams they want to invite to their friendlies and which teams don't get invited. Its not entitlement....its the symbiotic relationship...the one you don't quite understand. Nobody is saying that you have to buy every bit of food you consume on friendly day at the host's snack bar...just buy something...candy....seeds....a drink.....just about anything would do.

10U posters aren't rational...they don't know anything....and they're perfectly willing to tell you exactly what they don't know. Veterans are laughing too hard at you to actually post a response. I'm the veteran who has the composure to control my laughter and post at the same time.

Okay, all-knowing-one. Control your laughter for a few more moments and answer a few questions for a simpleton.

1) Since $400 plus free playing time isn't enough for a host team to expect, how much, exactly, are we supposed to give you? How much do you deserve to make for the day? Be specific please.

A. There is no free playing time. Host teams pay the umpires and for the fields if they are being charged for them. Teams deserve to make it worth their while to put on the event and they will normally make money according to what they choose to put into it.

2) Since we clearly owe you [insert your answer from Question 1], why don't you just charge us that for the friendly and be done with it?

A. Already answered this one.

3) How do you keep track of which teams sufficiently support your snack bar, so that you'll know who to black-ball in the future? Do you keep a chart, checking off sunflower seeds and such until each team either has or hasn't met its expected quota?

A. The parents working the snack bar provide valid and immediate feedback as to whom has supported the snack bar and who hasn't. They will also tell you whom they had to bug for umpire fees.

4) Symbiosis: a close ecological relationship between the individuals of two (or more) different species. Sometimes a symbiotic relationship benefits both species, sometimes one species benefits at the other's expense, and in other cases neither species benefits. I understand what symbiosis is--I just prefer the kind that benefits both species. You provide me with things I want, I'll gladly compensate you for them. You provide fields, teams and umps...we'll pay to play. You provide food and drink that we want, we'll pay to eat and drink. You want something for nothing, screw you--that benefits you only. Is that what you mean by a symbiotic relationship...we give you money "just because"?

A. Nobody is asking to give them money...its a matter of supporting the team that has put forth the effort so that your precious DD has the opportunity to learn the game by playing in games.

5) Does your self-proclaimed "veteran" status mean you're always right, or does it just mean that you get to toss around ad hominems and fallacious appeals to (self-proclaimed) authority in lieu of viable arguments?

A. My veteran status is earned over many years. My arguments are based on years of experience running tournaments, running friendlies, running teams and being successful in doing so.

Thanks...just trying to get closer to wisdom.

[Sam]

Oh, and don't think I didn't notice your surreptitious attempt to put the brakes on your own argument while simultaneously trying to feign victory. You've come a long way from "You people are frickin amazing....oh, the food isn't healthy...its not a gameday meal....give me a break" to "Geez...all I'm asking is that you buy a pack of sunflower seeds." Nice try.

Nice attempt at a straw argument, Skarp. My argument has never changed. Its about supporting the teams who choose to run these things. Many of them have players who can't afford all the expenses of travel ball and run friendlies so that those young ladies have similar opportunities as those with more affluent parents. I could care less if you, as an individual choose to support a team's snack bar. My messages are for the many people who read these posts and might be unduly influenced by your rather short-sighted argument.

[Judd]

We never played a friendly, only tournaments. But we bring a rolling cooler with us packed with sandwiches, gatorades, celery, carrots and other snacks. To be honest, I am lazy. Between games when I am relaxing my fat butt in 90+ heat, under my EZ-up, I want to reach over, get my gatorade, sandwich and relax. I sure as heck dont want to stand in line for 10 minutes, then wait another few minutes for my burger to be cooked by someone picking their nose. Yup thats how it went at one tourny, stand in line, order then they cooked your burger.

One tournament the bathrooms were overflowing and the kitchen was on the other side of the wall. Didnt give me much faith in sanitary conditions.

One torunament just about everyone on our team who ate from the stand got sick the next day.

Plus with 4 of us, we would drop a ton at the stand. But the kids always wind up getting something, specially the boy, candy, soda, etc. he can stand in line all day if he wants.

[Skarp]

1) Since $400 plus free playing time isn't enough for a host team to expect, how much, exactly, are we supposed to give you? How much do you deserve to make for the day? Be specific please.

A. There is no free playing time. Host teams pay the umpires and for the fields if they are being charged for them. Teams deserve to make it worth their while to put on the event and they will normally make money according to what they choose to put into it.

2) Since we clearly owe you [insert your answer from Question 1], why don't you just charge us that for the friendly and be done with it?

A. Already answered this one.

If you net $400 after expenses, and your team played in the friendly, then you got $400 plus free playing time. And you evaded my question. So again, I ask you. How much are you supposed to make? How much are you owed?

And again I also ask you, if you honestly feel that you are owed that amount, why not just charge it as an up-front fee instead of coming on here and trying to browbeat us into thinking we have some sort of extra obligation to you?

The answer is that you can't charge more, because nobody will think it's worth it. It's unfortunate, but other people get to make their own decisions about where and how they spend their money. You veterans will have to console yourself with your superior wisdom...the rest of us will just vote with our wallets.

[Cookie]

Skarp,
Not sure if I missed this but how many friendlies in your life have you hosted? Their is no way anyone in their right mind that has done all the work to host a friendly does not think that the other teams should support the snack bar. We host a lot, act like a A$$, leave your dugout a mess and don't support our snack bar and you will never be invited back. The people out there that are the ones saying that you should not have to support a snack bar are the same people who's teams are booted from going back to friendlies.