ABOUT VERBAL COMMITMENT

[B34R DOWN]

PD: as someone who is years a way from having to deal with all of this... I have a question... Do you look for or talk about back-up offers to coaches? I understand keep options open and covering bases, but is this common practice?

[PDad]

PD: as someone who is years a way from having to deal with all of this... I have a question... Do you look for or talk about back-up offers to coaches? I understand keep options open and covering bases, but is this common practice?

That was one of several questions I posed to AI. Hopefully he will explain how it works.

[AlwaysImprove]

If the coach was signing a binding agreement with her/us, they would receive binding commitment in return. They are not. They are giving you a soft verbal.

As has been shown here on numerous occasions that verbal can become very soft at time.

We need to be careful about our terminology. I can understand saying a verbal is soft because it isn't binding, but a "soft verbal" is even less so. I've heard SEC softball coaches have come out and declared all early verbals are soft (either side can back out for any reason - no fault) and firm up when they're a junior (i.e. expected to result in a binding NLI).

I am not saying that you grab the verbal and start immediately turn around and start pimping for a better deal. But, if your kid is a 8th grader or freshman, no reason not to leave some options.

I understand keeping the verbal on the downlow by not publicizing it. I expect the player also stops reaching out to other schools. How do you handle the following?

- College coach asks why profile doesn't show committed to their school. "We're just using up the sheets we had printed. It will be on the next batch." Do you update it?

- What do you say when another college expresses interest in her - do you mention she has already committed? We're taking back-up offers? What if it is a friend of the coach testing the commitment for them?

College coach did ask why DD was not listed as committed to the school. We did not tell select ball coach to list or not to list. Turns out he was not that into listing the latest recruit as soon as possible and too busy to update his list. Next revision after college coach asked listed DD as committed. No big deal.

Select coach was approached by other coaches after DD was committed. I think this is a bit more now than it has in the past, not a lot but a bit. Select coach would casually ask if we were still excited about our commitment. We really liked the school where DD was committed, the more she considered it, the more perfect it became. So any other offers were faced with increasing rising bar.

Yes, player should stop aggressively reaching out to other schools. You should tell any schools that remain in the conversation that you are committing.

NCAA dictates that all commitments are soft (either side can back out for any reason - no fault). Trust me, the language the coach uses is pretty specific and fairly well vetted. It has been tested by lawsuits over the years. The schools get together at NCAA 'compliance' meetings and collaborate/discuss what language they can use to maximize sense of commitment to the recruit, yet leave no real legal/financial risk. Which means they have committed nothing. Most schools have a compliance department with some really talented lawyers.

Most coaches are trustworthy folks, and as such you should deal with them in a trustworthy fashion. But they have not really made much of a 'commitment'. Well at least not one you can take to the bank or to a lawyer.

Yes there is a large gray area here. From full blown ESPN, to not letting anyone ever even mention your kid committed. Each of these can be addressed as you go along. If it really helps your ego, fully avoid it, it will only serve to lock you in.

When your kid is an 8th grader or freshman, getting that article in the paper, having everyone run around the park talking about your kid can be super appealing. I am just saying 4 years later:
- When your kid has been caught shop lifting and her dad was arrested for defrauding the high school softball funds, that press machine will turn on you.
- When your kid may not be having the year she is expected (based on the press, etc.) that press is going to be a ton of pressure on that kid. Pressure she does not need as an akward 16 year old struggling to fit in.

[PDad]

We need to be careful about our terminology. I can understand saying a verbal is soft because it isn't binding, but a "soft verbal" is even less so. I've heard SEC softball coaches have come out and declared all early verbals are soft (either side can back out for any reason - no fault) and firm up when they're a junior (i.e. expected to result in a binding NLI).

NCAA dictates that all commitments are soft (either side can back out for any reason - no fault). Trust me, the language the coach uses is pretty specific and fairly well vetted. It has been tested by lawsuits over the years. The schools get together at NCAA 'compliance' meetings and collaborate/discuss what language they can use to maximize sense of commitment to the recruit, yet leave no real legal/financial risk. Which means they have committed nothing. Most schools have a compliance department with some really talented lawyers.

Since all verbals are soft commitments, saying "soft verbal" would be redundant if there isn't any difference, However, the "soft verbal" is basically a meaningless "which way are you leaning" noncommitment in other sports like football - people almost expect it to change. The "no fault" aspect is it doesn't reflect negatively on the person backing out and no one is butt-hurt about it.

Thanks for answering and sharing lots of good info.

[B34R DOWN]

Thanks AI and PD.

[Blind Squirrel]

I can't remember if this has been posted before so ...

Timing of verballing/committing can be an issue. One coach made an offer and said the longer we waited to decide the better the chance that the coach would see someone else of comparable ability who would commit. She would then have to withdraw the offer. Another coach told us the spawn was her #1 choice but she couldn't afford to wait too long for a decision. She couldn't risk the #2 choice committing elsewhere while the coach was waiting and then spawn also decides to go elsewhere.

I've heard other people say they were put in the same type of situation. I don't know how often it occurs but the point of this post is to suggest you be ready in case it happens to you. Talk about it and have a plan. You can ask the coach for a deadline or something along those lines but other than that I don't have any cosmic advice on how to handle this. Every player's situation is different.

Witless Aloysius Squirrel

[DonnieS]

Our experienece with DD1 was quite similar to witless ass. squirrel, and she were given a deadline of something like 5 weeks to decide, this was to a large d1 , she took 4 days as I recall, the school was her #1 choice, and had any major she could have wanted. DD2's verbal was to a small D1 school and I dont remember a deadline being mentioned in her case. Both of these kids verbals were in the mid of their junior years.

[CheckWriter]

Interesting ...

Context: DD #2 graduated (college) about 2 months ago. DD #1 a little over 2 years ago.

Back "in the day" verbals were pretty damn close to a written contract and I posted along those lines here and on UCS. My perception is that the gravitas of the verbal is changing. Developments like the SEC (as referenced earlier in the thread) announcing that the verbal doesn't mean squat unless they (the coaches) say it means squat support that perception.

Neither DD was a "blue chipper" but both were recruited by multiples schools (including PAC 12) told multiple coaches in their Soph & Jr years that they couldn't commit because they were waiting until the summer after Jr years to commit (since the schools they were shooting for required Jr year transcripts before committing). Offers were formally on the table (up to 85% including a 5th year, if needed) and were withdrawn anywhere from weeks to almost a year later (depending how long it took to find a comparable prospect, I presume). Both got to study / play at their dream schools.

My DDs could afford (well, I could afford) to say, more or less, "I understand if you can't wait for me, but I am holding out for my dream school ..." and wait out the process. My perception is that the verbal doesn't mean nearly as much as it used to and to take a child off the market in 8th or 9th grade just doesn't make any sense to me. I don't think the post about commitment applies the way it used to ... at least not for coaches.

I think the possible exception is if Grandpa, Mom, Dad, uncle all went to the school, the school has 77 available majors, has a solid academic reputation, there are pictures of DD in Pampers wearing logo onesies, and DD will go there anyway ... what the hell, verbal and make a big deal of it.

In summary, get good grades and wait as long as possible. If the money aspect is that significant, chances are that academic scholarships and need based grants will likely make up a similar contribution as an athletic scholarships. In fact, many schools, the coaches love the smart kids because they can "save" the athletic money for the kids that don't qulify for the academic money.

My $0.02.

[extiger]

I have to admit I was one of those parents who wanted the prestige/pride of my kid's early (freshman-sophomore) verbal commitment because teammates and friends were doing it. A few schools expressed strong interest and a few made offers but she didn't deny nor accept. When it comes to recruiting, she made the right decision to wait. She is going into her senior year and recently gave a verbal commitment to attend and play on a D1 program where they really want her and she truly wants to be. One of the school's top priorities is to graduate students in four years. This school has the degree major she wants to pursue and back up majors of her interest in case she changes her mind. The school is a mid major D1 and offers a smaller student teacher ratio. The coach also told her she would have a great opportunity to compete for a starting position as a freshman. The scholarship offer was an academic / athletic combo. All in all it seems to be a perfect fit. My suggestion would be to wait and let them mature a couple of years. Let them decide if they feel the school is the right choice. If a child commits in the 8th or 9th grade it seems to me that it is more the parents decision and not the kids.

[fastpitchdad05]

I have to admit I was one of those parents who wanted the prestige/pride of my kid's early (freshman-sophomore) verbal commitment because teammates and friends were doing it. A few schools expressed strong interest and a few made offers but she didn't deny nor accept. When it comes to recruiting, she made the right decision to wait. She is going into her senior year and recently gave a verbal commitment to attend and play on a D1 program where they really want her and she truly wants to be. One of the school's top priorities is to graduate students in four years. This school has the degree major she wants to pursue and back up majors of her interest in case she changes her mind. The school is a mid major D1 and offers a smaller student teacher ratio. The coach also told her she would have a great opportunity to compete for a starting position as a freshman. The scholarship offer was an academic / athletic combo. All in all it seems to be a perfect fit. My suggestion would be to wait and let them mature a couple of years. Let them decide if they feel the school is the right choice. If a child commits in the 8th or 9th grade it seems to me that it is more the parents decision and not the kids.

Well said, I agree and congratulations on your patience in making a decision, extriger1...it obviously paid off.