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What's on your mind?

by PDad » Tue Sep 02, 2014 7:20 pm

Sam wrote:Teams aren't insured to play or practice from id August through December. No Fall.ball.

Okay, I've heard you say this before.

[quote]College coaches would support HS teams playing in showcases during the fall. This would reduce overuse injuries ,
reduce costs for the parents, and showcase girls in actual competitive games.[quote]
WTF?! What are you drinking/smoking? It's asinine to think all the problems with TB will disappear if done by HS teams.

- Overuse wouldn't be reduced because they're still playing softball and HS coaches ride their #1 as much, if not more, than TB coaches.

- Costs wouldn't be lower because showcase fees wouldn't change and practically every HS coach has to be compensated. Parents would still have to pay for it because schools sure as hell won't.

- Why would these showcases have "actual competitive games?"

Time to lay off the peyote...
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by Sam » Tue Sep 02, 2014 7:40 pm

PDad wrote:
Sam wrote:Teams aren't insured to play or practice from id August through December. No Fall.ball.

Okay, I've heard you say this before.

College coaches would support HS teams playing in showcases during the fall. This would reduce overuse injuries ,
reduce costs for the parents, and showcase girls in actual competitive games.
WTF?! What are you drinking/smoking? It's asinine to think all the problems with TB will disappear if done by HS teams.

- Overuse wouldn't be reduced because they're still playing softball and HS coaches ride their #1 as much, if not more, than TB coaches.

- Costs wouldn't be lower because showcase fees wouldn't change and practically every HS coach has to be compensated. Parents would still have to pay for it because schools sure as hell won't.

- Why would these showcases have "actual competitive games?"

Time to lay off the peyote...


It would reduce overuse because right now a player would be playing in showcases on the weekends in the fall and playing some HS games during the week. A HS team would play two tournaments that would last three weeks each, spreading the games out.

HS coaches typically play every game to win.....even scrimmages.

The cost would be lowered by playing in games insured by the schools, played at the HS fields.

What is being done right now isn't working for the players or the college coaches. The players are being overused and the coaches only see them in competitive situations if they see kids play at Nationals. Showcases are summarily worthless when trying to predict how a kid will perform in college, where every pitch and AB mean something. The college coaches can't recruit during HS regular season and playoffs , when they can really see how a kid can perform.

Fire up another bowl-o.
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by PDad » Wed Sep 03, 2014 9:39 am

Sam wrote:It would reduce overuse because right now a player would be playing in showcases on the weekends in the fall and playing some HS games during the week. A HS team would play two tournaments that would last three weeks each, spreading the games out.

It would be better to bar HS teams from playing Aug-Dec. The HS coaches that play in the Monday night games in HB have proven they're incapable of looking out for their players.

HS coaches typically play every game to win.....even scrimmages.

HS coaches that play scrimmages to win instead of developing their team are short-sighted and feeding their ego.

The cost would be lowered by playing in games insured by the schools, played at the HS fields.

Insurance? LOL That is an insignificant cost, especially compared to paying the coaches. Our district's official policy is teams have to pay for field time for games out of season - even though the team's parents maintain the field.

What is being done right now isn't working for the players or the college coaches. The players are being overused and the coaches only see them in competitive situations if they see kids play at Nationals. Showcases are summarily worthless when trying to predict how a kid will perform in college, where every pitch and AB mean something.

You didn't mention qualifiers or showcases with brackets (e.g. Worth Cup, NJ, CO, etc). I'll chalk it up to you being intentionally misleading rather than mentally incompetent.

The college coaches can't recruit during HS regular season and playoffs , when they can really see how a kid can perform.

I agree college coaches don't have much time to recruit during the HS regular season, so they only catch a few local games and tourneys. However, a simple check of the schedules shows the vast majority of them finish their season in time to watch HS playoffs. Hmm, I guess the HS playoffs aren't appealing to them if they're not watching them. Your 'solution' sounds even less appealing.

You really should clean up HS softball before advocating its expansion. There are a lot of crappy HS programs out there that people barely tolerate because it's only 3-4 months and nothing else is going on. Your idea would be the last straw and trigger mass movement between schools.
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by Sam » Wed Sep 03, 2014 11:41 am

PDad,

You must be smarter than that. The TB coaches continuously overuse their players...playing over 100 games per year.... and over 90% of their games are meaningless.....practice games....and YOU think HS coaches need to get fixed.....that is f#cking amazing.

Read my post. I was talking about Fall showcases that don't have brackets....not Summer showcases in Colorado and New Jersey.

If you think there are less TB programs that aren't worth a $hit than HS programs that suck, then you are delusional my friend. I've been on both sides of the sport and I know.

In the end, HS coaches get paid to do their jobs and they get fired when not successful. They will do what they believe is in their best interest in order to keep their jobs.

TB is the one that's broken and needs fixing. But it won't be done as long as there is still Koolaid in the jug.
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by PDad » Wed Sep 03, 2014 4:58 pm

Sam wrote:You must be smarter than that. The TB coaches continuously overuse their players...playing over 100 games per year.... and over 90% of their games are meaningless.....practice games....and YOU think HS coaches need to get fixed.....that is f#cking amazing.

DD's team played a full schedule last year and it was 83 games from late Sept thru PGF Nats. Most of the games last summer were meaningful by your criteria. Her coach certainly didn't treat the rest of the games as meaningless. It's a coaching problem if the team does.

Read my post. I was talking about Fall showcases that don't have brackets....not Summer showcases in Colorado and New Jersey.

You need to read your f'g post - "coaches only see them in competitive situations if they see kids play at Nationals." Nationals are during the summer, not the fall. smh

If you think there are less TB programs that aren't worth a $hit than HS programs that suck, then you are delusional my friend. I've been on both sides of the sport and I know.

You consistently characterize TB with the worst and portray HS with the best programs. NEWS FLASH - there are good and bad in both. There are over 700 HS varsity softball teams in SoCal between LA, SD and SS. Add in all the JV teams on top of that. You're delusional if you believe the majority of them are well run.

In the end, HS coaches get paid to do their jobs and they get fired when not successful. They will do what they believe is in their best interest in order to keep their jobs.

Most AD's don't care whether the softball team is successful. Many/most of them are required to give the job to a faculty member that wants it, regardless of whether they are qualified or not. It's amazing you don't see the inherent danger of an unqualified coach and/or one putting their own self-interest above the welfare of the players. smh

It's a pipe dream you'll get any control over TB, so fire up another bowl-o. However, you could push for change in HS via CIF instead.
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by Pale Rider » Wed Sep 03, 2014 7:47 pm

Nirvana? :roll: 8-)
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by Sam » Thu Sep 04, 2014 8:22 am

PDad,

Please try to make your arguments without making up or misrepresenting mine.

A) I said college coaches don't see the kids in meaningful games unless they see them at Nationals.....you add that they play meaningful games in Colorado....some do....my point is that Fall showcases are not meaningful games....they are expensive jokes. You have committed pitchers throwing meatballs to kids who are trying to impress a college coach. Is it any wonder so many recruiting mistakes are made.

B) Your kid played 83 games...still twice as many as HS games. 42+ meaningful games.....really?

C) I said, "If you think there are less TB programs that aren't worth a $hit than HS programs that suck, then you are delusional my friend." You characterize that with "You consistently characterize TB with the worst and portray HS with the best programs. NEWS FLASH - there are good and bad in both." If you read what I said, you ignored it.

D) I worked for an AD that fired his SB staff.....after we lost our 2nd round playoff game to a kid going to U of Michigan 3-0.

E) You obviously didn't read the OP....which was describing our own softball Nirvana. You must have thought it was a music post.
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by PDad » Thu Sep 04, 2014 3:32 pm

Sam wrote:PDad,

Please try to make your arguments without making up or misrepresenting mine.
I do. You should try it for a change.

A) I said college coaches don't see the kids in meaningful games unless they see them at Nationals.....you add that they play meaningful games in Colorado....some do....my point is that Fall showcases are not meaningful games....

Let's review - you make an inaccurate assertion that goes outside the scope of your point, I refute your broad assertion and then you complain and misrepresent our posts in the process. You blow it and it's somehow my fault. :roll:

As I posted before, games are as meaningful as the coach/team makes them. If a team is playing in a showcase and gets exposure, that's what makes the games meaningful. Otherwise, it's up to them whether they treat them like a scrimmage or an elimination game. A meaningless trophy doesn't make the games meaningful.

they are expensive jokes. You have committed pitchers throwing meatballs to kids who are trying to impress a college coach.

Classic - take something that's an infrequent occurrence and rant about it as being the norm. I recall your story of squeezing in a few at bats for a player that a college coach only had a few minutes to see. That was an exception.

B) Your kid played 83 games...still twice as many as HS games. 42+ meaningful games.....really?

:roll: You misunderstood my post - "Most of the games last summer were meaningful by your criteria." They played 50 games last summer and 29 were BRACKET games in qualifiers, Boulder and PGF Nats. Please try to pay better attention.

C) I said, "If you think there are less TB programs that aren't worth a $hit than HS programs that suck, then you are delusional my friend." You characterize that with "You consistently characterize TB with the worst and portray HS with the best programs. NEWS FLASH - there are good and bad in both." If you read what I said, you ignored it.

I read it and dismissed it as your opinion. My response pointed out your bias and suggested the huge number of HS teams (i.e. over 700 varsity in SoCal + JV), conservatively over 1,000 teams, would result in a greater number of HS teams that suck.

D) I worked for an AD that fired his SB staff.....after we lost our 2nd round playoff game to a kid going to U of Michigan 3-0.

Most AD's would consider that successful. If that wasn't the case, I hope you're not trying to use that one occurrence to prove anything. I said "most" AD's, not all. FWIW, my experience is AD's sometimes use lack of success as an excuse to fire a coach when they're itching to do it for other reasons. Most AD's are satisfied as long as the coach isn't causing them grief.

I imagine our debate has resulted in PR becoming fit to be tied and bored everyone else. We should take it offline because no one else cares.
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by Pale Rider » Thu Sep 04, 2014 4:51 pm

Me?...No problem ...I got The Godfather of all softball' on 'IGNORE"...
Cant have a civil discussion cause you get the World According Sam' drivel...
I refuse to to get in an intelligent / informational discussion with someone who cant have one and get dragged down to their dumb ass level and beaten by experience...like playing chess with a pigeon...they just crap all over the board, knock over the pieces and beat their wings in victory...

I'm so happy I have to sit on my hands to keep from waving at everybody ;)
I truly read posts and learn things......but Im not a Greenhorn and although I'm not a veterinarian...I know what a horses ass smells like...
I'm glad some of y'all do have viable fun HS ball...some schools here do also...but not all...

As far as the original post...weigh the options...and does the KID wanna play...let them decide given all the pro's and cons...

Lets put it this way, some schools still play slow pitch, coaches create BS rules that say you HAVE to play slow pitch to play fast pitch...usually just to insure that they have somebody that can catch and throw the ball...
Think a SP swing works wonders on a FP player?...
Forcing them to play....for....what? :roll:
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by Battle » Thu Sep 04, 2014 5:42 pm

Pale Rider wrote:Lets put it this way, some schools still play slow pitch, coaches create BS rules that say you HAVE to play slow pitch to play fast pitch...usually just to insure that they have somebody that can catch and throw the ball...
Think a SP swing works wonders on a FP player?...
Forcing them to play....for....what? :roll:

Yeah, I've heard of that and forcing a girl to play is beyond absurd. Just know that HS ball is the closest she will get to the college experience as it relates to school pride, trips together to away games, seeing each other every day, keeping grades up to play, awards, etc...

BTW...There is no such thing as a meaningless game....Only some games matter more than others to some people.
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