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OnDeck... is it a good thing or a waste of time?

What's on your mind?

by CountryBumpkin » Mon Dec 15, 2014 3:03 pm

To answer my own questions. OnDeck turned out to a very useful tool. DD verballed last week and the coaches at the university that she verballed with said they first saw her at an OnDeck Jamboree, liked what they saw and followed her around the country this past summer and fall!!! Another school we were considering said they saw her first at the Colorado Jamboree!
Enjoying this crazy ride.
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by fontana10! » Mon Dec 15, 2014 8:25 pm

Congratulations to your daughter. I know several players who have shared similar stories regarding On Deck.
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by ondeck81710 » Tue Dec 16, 2014 10:01 pm

Hey everyone. This is Derek Allister. John Cookson sent me this thread, so I wanted to jump on it and offer some thoughts. I really appreciate CountryBumpkin asking those questions. And I am glad John sent the thread to me. The answer might get a bit long, but we really think this is important. First, Joann and I appreciate those who have related their experiences with us . . . we know we have helped thousands of players over the years - some of whom never even knew we were helping them. They appeared on our Report, and then schools started showing up for games. And there have been a few who have been offered scholarship money just off our report. That makes us nervous, but in each of those cases, it worked out well for the school and player. In regards to our events, it's important to understand that we can only provide a platform. We don't get involved in the recruiting process itself. We don't recommend players to schools since we work for so many of them. We just provide our evaluations and a platform. The rest is up to players, coaches, and parents. As we all used to say in the basketball recruiting world, "one man's food is another man's poison" and nothing could be more true.. For example, some coaches like catchers who are great defensively and can control the bases, even if they give up some offense. Others look for catchers who are run producers and are only solid behind the plate. Every coach looks for players who fit their philosophy and need. But the wave of the future in softball is athleticism, and the roots of the ODM lie in that fact.

The ODM started at the request of the college coaching community. Just over three years ago, a significant number of them approached us about starting "measurables." We explored how we might do that and then created OnDeck Measurements. Now, of course, these metrics are all the rage. However the simple intent of the score is to establish a baseline for each athlete and then give them something to work on. The University of Arizona told us that years of testing revealed that the average D-1 athlete threw the ball 61 MPH. So it would be obviously beneficial for players and parents to know what their daughter's velocity is; and then determine if arm strength is something that is a weakness or a strength. Now Joann and I sometimes wonder about the frenzy surrounding all these metrics. So we constantly try to remind people that players still need to hit it, catch it, throw it, and pitch it. And that will never really change. But metrics are the wave of the future in everything in life, it seems. So these numbers are here to stay whether all of us like it or not.

But back to the point. After we established the metrics, the next step was naturally an "Index" - another coach request. A statistician from UC Davis created the ODM Athletic Index over the course of 4 months while looking at nearly 2000 players' numbers. That number has now grown to nearly 10,000 at this point in time. Needless to say, we seem to be zeroing in on some trends since the data is growing so quickly..

Now for some college stories. Like everything in life, some coaches are absolute believers. Others are skeptics. I will tell you more and more coaches are coming over to the believer side each and every week. We had a BCS school who regularly plays in the NCAA tournament call us asking about a recruit's ODM scores and Athletic Index. They needed those numbers before they could decide upon a financial offer to the player on her visit. Two SEC schools look at and use the numbers very differently. One looks for Big Time numbers even tho the skill set might be lower since that staff feels it can teach and develop those skills. Another school looks for a well developed skill set and will take players with lower scores since they believe their strength and conditioning program can develop the "athlete." Two very different approaches. But both schools religiously follow the numbers that ODM supplies.

I hope that helps. Again, thanks CountryBumpkin for posing the questions. Please let us know if we can ever help any of you in any way. Take care and have a wonderful Holiday Season.
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by softballdaddi » Thu Dec 18, 2014 3:38 pm

If your DD is targeting schools that only look at numbers then OnDeck is the way to go. My DD tried out for OnDeck, but was never invited to any of the Jamborees. She is slow as a turtle, her bat speed, throwing speed and pitch speeding won't wow anyone. Invited OD to watch her at several games, still didn't get an invite. Even OnDeck can't predict how a kid is going to perform in a game, kid got on several radars, but accepted an offer to play at a small D1. If your kid doesn't have the numbers, don't be discouraged. I know other kids that have great ODM numbers, but are still looking....
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by CheckWriter » Thu Dec 18, 2014 5:24 pm

Both DDs participated in the past. Younger DD was a last minute add on when it got smoked out one year in San Diego and got moved to Mount SAC at the last minute because not everybody invited could make. Had no clue what it was until we showed up. Certainly got both DDs on enough radars that they had their pick of a few good schools each.

After that I started noticing Joann and Derek at showcases scouting. Talking to people, anybody. Following up on leads. Watching girls play in games. Even though they have been forced to become more quantitative, my guess is that they are still evaluation the "whole package". Probably more objectively than most other sources because they have no differential investment in any one girl over any other. They have a track record that has earned them credibility. Finally, they are genuinely nice people.

Anyway, it is hard to imagine that it would ever not be worth going if invited unless travel was prohibitively expenesive.

Finally, to the PP (previous poster), please don't take this as any sort of dismissal of your DDs talents or anything else negative. I sincerely hope her choice pans out for her and hope she stays mostly healthy most of her time in college. That will be a big one as, I think, many college grad parents can attest, college athletics at just about any level is a brutal, physical and mental grind.

Wish your family (and everybody going through the recruiting grinder) all the best.
I see no hope for the future of our people if they are dependent on the frivolous youth of today, for certainly all youth are reckless beyond words.
--- Hesiod, Eighth Century B.C.
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by softballdaddi » Fri Dec 19, 2014 9:35 am

CheckWriter wrote:Both DDs participated in the past. Younger DD was a last minute add on when it got smoked out one year in San Diego and got moved to Mount SAC at the last minute because not everybody invited could make. Had no clue what it was until we showed up. Certainly got both DDs on enough radars that they had their pick of a few good schools each.

After that I started noticing Joann and Derek at showcases scouting. Talking to people, anybody. Following up on leads. Watching girls play in games. Even though they have been forced to become more quantitative, my guess is that they are still evaluation the "whole package". Probably more objectively than most other sources because they have no differential investment in any one girl over any other. They have a track record that has earned them credibility. Finally, they are genuinely nice people.

Anyway, it is hard to imagine that it would ever not be worth going if invited unless travel was prohibitively expenesive.

Finally, to the PP (previous poster), please don't take this as any sort of dismissal of your DDs talents or anything else negative. I sincerely hope her choice pans out for her and hope she stays mostly healthy most of her time in college. That will be a big one as, I think, many college grad parents can attest, college athletics at just about any level is a brutal, physical and mental grind.

Wish your family (and everybody going through the recruiting grinder) all the best.


I don't think the grinder starts at the college level. Just to get recruited, you have to work hard to perfect your game. Once you get your prize, you still have to work to keep it. This includes the classroom. The only difference between college and pre college is the grinder speed. Her college coach was upfront with us. Mandatory 5 am workouts for all players, mandatory study halls and 3.5 GPA expectations. We don't have 5 am mandatory workouts at home, We do have pitching lessons after school when we are not at club practice. Don't forget that homework comes first. We expect her to maintain a 3.5 GPA as well.
I agree that the OnDeck folks are great people, I was only trying to emphasize that there is more than ODM numbers that should be factored in. Yes, if you are invited to an OD Jamboree you will be placed in front of a lot of colleges. Just don't freak out if your kid does not make the camp. It does not mean your kid does not have what it takes to get recruited or play at the next level.
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by 29dad » Sun Mar 01, 2015 4:03 pm

Just curious if girls ever attend an OnDeck tryout even after they have verballed just for the experience and to find out their measurables?
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by FullCount » Sun Mar 01, 2015 9:03 pm

From the OnDeckSoftball.net website regarding OnDeck Tryouts:

Who can attend? Any high school junior or younger not verbally committed or signed, interested in being evaluated by OnDeck and potentially receiving an invitation to an OnDeck Jamboree.
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by Mark H » Thu Apr 07, 2016 8:51 am

Thought this was worth a bump. I've always heard good things about the Allisters. Now have first hand reasons to say they are in it for all the right reasons and absolutely love helping a kid who has put in the work.
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by tbjd33 » Thu Apr 07, 2016 10:19 am

Mark H wrote:Thought this was worth a bump. I've always heard good things about the Allisters. Now have first hand reasons to say they are in it for all the right reasons and absolutely love helping a kid who has put in the work.


Agree 100%...

I'm glad it worked well for you guys!
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