Fork and Beans

[topper]

Doesn't mean that this is what the ump who posted it meant,..

Trust me, it's exactly what was meant.

- the point I was trying to illustrate is that there are umps who will intentionally kick calls to make a point.

Absolutely! And maybe those deserve a good beaning, although this team should work on making it less obvious.

There are many more who won't work to change the things that cause them to kick calls unintentionally. Then there are those who just have poor judgement, which is very difficult to fix.

[Sam]

This sport constantly fails to weed out the worst of us, indeed seems to reward bad behavior. If the governing bodies refuse to take a roll in removing these folks from positions of leadership, certainly no one will. It does suck that we are reduced to calling on the governing bodies to take action, but the only other choice is to do absolutely nothing and wait for the next worse thing to happen.

I wasn't going to post on this topic anymore, simply because I've already added any potentially useful insight that I might have, and probably exceeded that by a fair amount. That said, let's agree to disagree on this particular incident, and think more generally. You are way more experience than I am, and you gained this experience near the epicenter of the softball universe, but I've been around enough to know that there is plenty of bad behavior out there.

Here's the question I see, how do the governing bodies take action when there are multiple relevant sanctions? If a high profile coach from a high profile organization gets banned from one, nothing is going to prevent them from moving their business to another. Depending on how much pull this coach/org has, that could hurt the sanction more than the coach. Politically, there is no chance that the sanctions will band together to pass a joint decision. Even if they did, I would presume it would be near impossible to defend a legal challenge if the behavior occurred in another sanction's event. For that matter, the potential legal costs of defending a challenge might be one of the biggest obstacles for individual sanctions to impose penalties within their own domain. The best authorities to make these decisions are the orgs themselves, but they have a bottom line to maintain, and if you fire a coach from one they will probably wind up somewhere else, if they have a name, or start their own org. That leaves it in the hands of the parents who traditionally have shown poor judgement in this regard. Even worse, it leaves "justice" to a grass-roots process that invariably becomes so corrupted by group-think and manipulation by disgruntled parents that it's almost impossible for an outsider to make an accurate assessment. Kind of a catch-22 in my mind.

Not to be argumentative, but I don't think a coach who has been shamed would seek a legal remedy against an association that has suspended him/her from coaching a game under their jurisdiction.....just my opinion. I don't think there are many coaches that make enough money to retain legal counsel for anything.

[Blind Squirrel]

Around 10 years ago I spent 6 months on the soccer disciplinary board (volunteer members). We had jurisdiction over travel ball as well as AYSO rec ball. From San Diego to SoCal. We suspended kids and coaches, forced players, coaches and parents to attend ref training classes before they could be reinstated, etc. I never heard mention of anyone ever suing the board but I was only on it for a short time.

So a board can be done. The problem I see in FP is the number of different organizations, the interest/willingness of the different organizations to set up, support and fund such a board and enforce their decisions, individually or collectively. I think it's a shame personally. I thought it worked very well in youth soccer.

Mittens Squirrel

[AlwaysImprove]

I feel should start a new thread for this.

Boards for local rec Soccer, with some on control over local travel happen. The big soccer travel teams that go from state to state are still pretty wild west. AAU has pretty solid grip over basketball. I suspect their coaches training looks more like fight club than Martha Stewart.

The top of the game is largely controlled by the college coaches. The problem is that the college coaches have their hands really full beating each other over the head.

[jtat32]

Not to be argumentative, but I don't think a coach who has been shamed would seek a legal remedy against an association that has suspended him/her from coaching a game under their jurisdiction.....just my opinion. I don't think there are many coaches that make enough money to retain legal counsel for anything.

Not argumentative at all, I was asking for your opinion - thanks,

[ontheblack]

I leave for two weeks and this thing grows to 31 pages?

Some interesting comments for sure. I only take exception to the ones mocking those who said their kids wouldnt have done this, so I showed DD1 the video. Her first comment was, "I have had umpires like that. Remeber that game against X? I can understand how this happened. But the catcher was a dumbshit the way she did it." I asked her if she would have done that and she paused longer than I liked, then said "No, but we have joked about it in the dugout before." What surprised her the most was that it was Mel. There are coaches we would expect this behavior from, but he is not one of them. That said, I was just as shocked when Fox lost it and choked Peronto.

I see this as a teachable moment for those who have no connection to Mel and the team. It is a different test of character and integrity for those who do. And since we do not know the private conversations between coach and players and parents, it is impossible for those not involved to pass judgement.

For Mel, I think he is much like Fox, embarrassed over his behavior being caught on film. I would bet he has since had to explain this to the future college coaches of the kids involved.

For those who have made this personal and deemed themselves judge, jury and executioner by interfering in the lives of these kids, you have failed more than Mel. You are worse. You should be sued for tortious interference.

Pdad, I love the Few Good Men ego twist. It is sad, and in some cases tragic, how more than a few adults involved in youth sports conduct themselves. As Andy noted, the game is changing and it isnt good. The number of kids I see drop out of rec ball now at earlier ages is increasing, and its related to the out of control behavior of the adults. The game isnt as pure fun as it used to be.

[Battle]

I leave for two weeks and this thing grows to 31 pages?

...And the subject/title changed...

Pdad, I love the Few Good Men ego twist. It is sad, and in some cases tragic, how more than a few adults involved in youth sports conduct themselves. As Andy noted, the game is changing and it isnt good. The number of kids I see drop out of rec ball now at earlier ages is increasing, and its related to the out of control behavior of the adults. The game isnt as pure fun as it used to be.

Maybe the kids are just resting. You know, playing video games and other sports and then more video games.

Although I agree that parents can go overboard with rec ball, I don't think that's the reason for the decline of participants in it. I think it leans more toward their financial situation now a days. Also, rec ball is suppose to be about instruction but it's hard to instruct at a walk fest. Rec ball in other parts of the country is not as good as it is in Cali (At least for the most part). Some of you that assume that, really need to get to other areas and watch. I don't see that happening though. I do believe it is the life line into TB so I would like it to see it flourish.

[CheckWriter]

To me, one thing that gets lost in this discussion sportsmanship. Why can't be people be classy any more? I know some are, but it seems like less and less. Personally, I think sports as a life lesson is over rated. Most of it is seeing behavior you
DON'T want to emulate. The video is a good example of that. My opinion is that this was the coaches idea and even if the catcher did it "own her own" and it was only implied and not expressed by the coach, he still created the culture that allowed it to happen.

If one takes professional sports as the pinnacle, it is really not that surprising that things are evolving the way they are. The NFL is getting REALLY hard to watch for me. Every time someone makes a play, they have to do some celebratory routine.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEbi5GEmElY (not sure why it has subtitles).

Similar in politics and the financial industry - "Well, it wasn't ILLEGAL."

Anyway, this horse is dead.

“A leader leads by example, whether he intends to or not.” - couldn't find an attribution.

[Skarp]

Personally, I think sports as a life lesson is over rated. Most of it is seeing behavior you
DON'T want to emulate.

Often the best kinds of life lessons, in my experience.

[CheckWriter]

Personally, I think sports as a life lesson is over rated. Most of it is seeing behavior you
DON'T want to emulate.

Often the best kinds of life lessons, in my experience.

But nobody needs an endless supply. It's kind of like hitting - good hitting instructors can come up with "active corrections" - things to do, not things to avoid.

Guess we can just agree to disagree on this one - I have gotten a lot more out of positive role models than negative role models in my lifetime.