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Open Letter to Pitchers' Parents

What's on your mind?

by SnocatzDad » Tue May 26, 2009 8:13 am

WildRoseCoach wrote:Great topic. I'm running into this same thing this year. Last year I was head coach in another organization we had 3 pitchers. At the end of the Season all 3 of the pitchers were within 10 innings of each other. This year we moved to another organization and I'm assisting. So far after 3 Tournaments, #1 pitcher = 50 innings, #2 = 17 innings, #3 = 12 innings. I asked the Head Coach about this same topic and his response was, "I'm a firm believer in riding the horse until it gets too tired".

Either I'll take the head coach next year at 14U or we'll go somewhere else if this guy is going to be the head coach.


This may seem unfair, but I could forsee 50 short innings, 17 medium long innings, and 12 really long innings being reasonably equitable in pitch count. We were rotating pitchers religiously two years ago based on innings and found that out #1 was pitching much less than #2 and #3 because she was pitching much shorter innings due to her ability. It's more about rotating kids and keeping the workload per day reasonable. I agree with Moefoes, I wouldn't let my daughter get overworked at catcher either. I think catching a game is more of an overall physical grind than pitching a game. It doesn't entail the same specific repetitive stress that pitching does, but the crouching, the gear, being the defensive captain, take a different type of toll. I like to DP my catcher on their off games so they get a physical break on multiple game days.
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by WildRoseCoach » Tue May 26, 2009 8:17 am

Tucson wrote:I wonder about 3 trnys and 50 innings. If you played 5 games in a tournament, that is only 10 innings for the #1, for a weekend. I don't find that excessive. Do you know how many pitches she threw? Because that is important. Can she throw 8 pitches per inning or is she throwing 25 pitches per inning?

I chart my pitchers during games, so I know exactly where they are at, but the score book should also show you the number of pitches thrown. (If the score keeper is charting foul balls.)

Locally, here the leagues limit the pitchers to 2 innings. The girls never get strong enough or get enough experience to improve. I think that is also detrimental to the pitcher.

Overuse is a fine line and it varies from girl to girl.

I agree about catchers. My niece is a "gamer" and she is on the shelf with knee pain, right now. Ice, ice, and ice some more. And make the 2 games in a row, the exception instead of the rule.


Not sure where you came up with 10 innings??? She has pitched mutiple 6 & 7 inning games. Pitch count has varied from 30 pitches/inning to 6 pitches/inning. Here is her stats:

NO Foulballs charted... good call, going to have to start doing that.

Games 11, Games Started 7, Complete Games 4, IP 46.00, 636 pitches

#2 pitcher
Games 6, GS 1, CG 1, IP 17.00, 179 pitches

#3
Games 3, GS 3, CG 0, IP 12.00, 215 pitches
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by Tucson » Tue May 26, 2009 1:59 pm

"So far after 3 Tournaments, #1 pitcher = 50 innings"

I have no idea why I said anything about 10 innings a weekend. Please carry on without me. :)
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by SnocatzDad » Wed May 27, 2009 6:34 am

wadeintothem wrote:In fairness, ASA's rules processes are very democratic and brought about through all types of committees formed of coaches, players reps, and umpires, etc...

Every year a book of proposed changes are pushed.

Its not like there is a "Mr. ASA" that waves a magic wand and a rule gets added - the ASA code must be followed. It needs you parents to put the pressure on your organizations.

Limiting the using of a #1 pitcher...

Ha, when hell freezes over.. but you cant blame "ASA" .. blame yourselves. Its your people and reps who wont pass it.

With an unwillingness to be a parent and limit your own kids on your own and an unwillingness to push this through in ASA at the annual meeting..

I will continue to see the same pitcher over and over from a team.

Dont blame ASA though - this is on you folks.


Wade,

I've only been around this about 4 years so don't know the history. Was it membership demand that put limits on bats and required facemasks? Or did ASA lead there instead of follow. Just looking for precedence of where to expect rules that impact player health and safety to come from.

I'll continue to impose reasonable limits on the kids I work with without any rules, but when I first started I wouldn't have known any of the dangers and the reality is that it isn't the 18U Gold coach with years of experience that is out there riding a pitcher too long knowingly that I'm worried about. It's the new coach with limited or no experience who should be given constraints that don't allow him/her to damage a kid for life. Who wants to look back on their coaching career and know they were complicit in ruining a kids quality of life.
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by camrynsdad » Wed May 27, 2009 5:09 pm

been the bucket sitting dad with older dd with my younger she has speed and quick hands
just gonna be a all around softball player you have to have those to win a game also
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by GIMNEPIWO » Thu May 28, 2009 8:11 pm

jofus wrote:So, I'm coaching a newly formed travel team, 14U. We played our first tournament this weekend, and we need to work on our hitting, which I knew already, and get used to each other (a few of the girls have played all-stars together, a few others have played against each other, and a couple are complete strangers, and we've only had one practice due to high school mainly).

The thing is, we have 7 or 8 legitimate pitchers. I'm not naive enough to think we have 7 or 8 studs, we don't have any true "shut-down" pitchers that are gonna goose-egg a good hitting team, but at least 6 of them are pretty decent pitchers, and the other 2 have potential but haven't had as much instruction (one is a lefty and an exceptional athlete, she has some serious potential, I think...). Three of them have pitched a good bit of travel ball, so they're a little ahead in experience.

So, my question is.....would I be crazy to set up a rotation and pitch each pitcher 2 (or maybe 3, if she's on fire) innings and then move to the next on my list? Obviously we're not talking a national championship caliber team or anything, or maybe even a state championship team, but I think we have the athletes to be decent in the tournaments we are going to mainly play in.

I was thinking of mistakes I may have made this weekend (we went 2-4, but I wasn't upset, with only having one practice as a team before the tournament), and there were a couple pitchers that I had warmed up, but didn't get them in.

Plus, most teams my DD has been on has always seemed to hit a pitcher better the second time through the lineup, so I figure switching pitchers to give them a different look/speed/etc. may not be an entirely bad thing?

Am I crazy to even think about trying it? Not just to try to keep all of them happy, since they will probably only pitch 4-6 innings in a weekend, but maybe to keep the offenses off balance. It will definitely take overuse injuries out of the picture about as much as possible....


No ... you are not nut... not everyone needs to blow them away ... we'll start the flame thrower and then throw a gal who can just keep us in the game for an inning or two, and visa versa ... we use a rotation with our pitchers, and as MoeFoe points out, with our catchers ... you put on all that armor on a 95 degree day and see how you do playing back to backs ... peeps that over throw their hurlers and burn out their back stops are hose heads ...
"For the strength of the pack is the wolf, the strength of the wolf is the pack" Rudyard Kipling
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by MoeFoes » Thu May 28, 2009 11:35 pm

I guess it is true....No one gives a crap about the catchers. 1/2 of these girls catching wont make it past 14U with the abuse they take..... I saw a 14U catcher go 14 innings behind the plate in 1 day at a damn friendly. That really pissed me off. She is a D-1 kid and will never see it at this rate.
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by jofus » Fri May 29, 2009 6:47 am

We played 6 games last weekend over 3 days, and one of my catchers caught almost 4 complete games, which was too much, not because she is my only catcher, but because she has never played anywhere else. I had her in the outfield for a few innings one game, and she did better than she thought she would, so I'm gonna work on her outfield abilities.

I have at least 3 solid catchers, and 2 more that will be solid with just a little work, so I'm gonna rotate them just like I do my pitchers, 2 (or maybe 3) innings in a row and that's all.

I'm also planning on resting my pitcher and catcher for the 2 innings before they get in the game as pitcher/catcher as often as I can work it out.
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by Iluvblue » Fri May 29, 2009 7:24 am

I'm also planning on resting my pitcher and catcher for the 2 innings before they get in the game as pitcher/catcher as often as I can work it out.



Do you really think playing LF or 3rd base in the innings prior to coming in to catch or pitch is going to make or break them? You are setting yourself up for all sorts of problems.
Too many teams are trying to play too many kids in all these positions. You are trying to create a successful team. You cant do that bouncing kids all over the place. Use 3 catchers sparingly. 2 is great, rotate almost every game until winning really matters, then you go with the best catcher. You should never need to catch the same kid more than 2 consecutive games.

Sit down on a Thurday or Friday after you get your schedule for the weekend and do your lineups for all 3 of your games. This helps in more ways then one. First, you can tell your girls that the lineups are already done for the entire day, heck you can even tll them which games they are sitting. THis way when they get sat, they kow it has nothing to do with the mistake they made in the previous game.

2nd, you are not rushing to get your lineup card done to start the next game. You did it while drinking a nice cold drink at the computer and took your time. You can keep track of who is sitting and try to keep things close. No player should sit more than 1 game, and you can track your pitchers much easier. Good luck with sitting your pitcher for 2 innings before she comes in.
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by jofus » Fri May 29, 2009 8:40 am

ILuv, that's exactly what I plan on doing, working out a schedule for each game before hand, rather than trying to throw it together inbetween games.

As for moving girls around, we are a newly formed team, we've had 2 practices and played in one tournament. I'm still trying to figure out where each girls fits the best, which girls can play outfield, etc. (they all have played infield almost their entire life....), etc. I don't know, I may be going about it wrong, but I want to take my time, and slowly settle the girls into a little more permanent positions, rather than rush to make those decisions without giving a good look at several combinations. My goal is to keep this team together for the next few years, or at least as many of them as I can, so I'm looking more long-term than short-term, if that makes sense.

Also, I know that I may not be able to sit the pitcher/catcher before they pitch/catch every time, but I want to as much as possible, just to try to even out the substitutions. I plan on sitting the non-pitchers/non-catchers some also, so I won't be able to sit p/c's every time (we have 11 players right now).

Not only are we a new team, this is the first time I've made these decisions (I've helped coach, but not "managed" before), so I'm trying to learn how to be a better manager as we go :)
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