Gold policy is official

[Sam]

Sam who are the teams that voted for this, is it top secret? I know of 1 maybe 2 but I am not sure so I won't say.

The real issue with this is that the Region 14 J.O. Gold reps did this with input from very few people. Dave Marin is the most powerful Gold commissioner in the Region...about half of the teams are in his association. This doesn't happen without his full support. He pushed for this...he can only tell you why.

I was at the Gold managers' meeting last year. This subject, the single biggest change in the Gold division ever, was never even broached. The big subject last year was the GOBs complaining about TDs in other Regions treating them unfairly. Why do you suppose this wasn't brought up? Because there were a lot of Gold managers there....managers that would oppose such a stupid move.

After Gold nationals there is a meeting between the Gold commissioners in the respective associations/metros and with Marin's clout, the fix is in for the GOBs. Steve Monson never did this crap.

Go back and look at the scores in the Lancaster Regional last year...pretty competitive up and down. Except when you got to the qualifying games:

OC BB 16
Grapettes 0

Diamonds 12
Socerers-Phil 0 These guys qualified in the LB

Breakers 11
American Pastime 0

These games were for the berth....winner gets a berth...loser goes to LB.

Lots of rhetoric on this board about the real Gold teams and how they run-rule the pretenders...does anybody think that the losers of these games are pretenders???? I don't....these are teams that were 4-0 in the Regional prior to these games....excellent teams.

I hope SoCal ASA Gold teams never win another Gold national....and I hope that they start getting people to run SoCal ASA that aren't from Chula Vista.

[Sam]

Sam Sam Sam....better zip it up, your bigotry is hanging out....

I'm not a bigot...though I am a moronophobe..

[movinup]

This is not an ASA issue. Frankly, this wasn't David Marin's idea. Nobody "voted" for this. I'm told two people from the elite teams went to the Region 14 reps after Gold Nationals and told them that if they didn't make changes (this was one of them) that they would not go back to gold nationals again. They told the Region 14 reps they would run a norcal/socal tournament at the same time as gold nationals and they would get other top teams to also abandon gold nationals. This was nothing more then a power play. It is no secret that 95% of this proposal came from Gary Haning.

Having said that, I believe this will strengthen the second tier teams. They will pick up a few key players when they earn one of the forty spots. Lancaster will be more competitive this summer and there may be some surprises. As Sam said, be careful what you wish for!

By the way Sam, Dave Marin did qute the scores in qualification games as evidence of the problem. Too many weaker teams cause these teams to use up their pitching and then these teams aren't competitive at the moment of truth. I'm not agreeing with this, just pointing out what was said in the gold meeting on October 15th.

[andy]

For the record. I am not in support of the proposal as it is. Asked for there to be a meeting that could come up with better suggestions, asked to allow Gold managers to review whatever was decided on to look for loop holes, and asked for them not to start it at a minimum until 2010. The reply was that this was for Socal teams only which I guess means Dave Marin did not know Cruisers play out of Socal. Just as they did not know who Bruce Richardson was at the coaches meeting. Seems to be , the Gold commissioner should know who their Gold managers are if they have been around as long as Socal A's have as well as Cruisers.

So Sam, you can continue to look for some sort of good old boy conspiracy but it does not exist here. This agenda is being ushered by SOCAL ASA alone with the help of who they decided was best qualified but it certainly did not include all the top Gold managers. In addition, this rule benefits the second tier gold teams far more then it will the top tier. The top tiered teams have mostly if not completely filled their Gold rosters by now. The next tier can no go qualify, declare they are gold, and pick those one or two good players who's teams do not make it.

Did something need to be done about the number of Gold teams? yes, without a doubt an dmaybe this is the right solution. But other solutions might have been available and the exact problem has to first be clearly define dbefore you find a fix. Laslty, pushing it ahead without thinking and making a rule change the affects 130 some teams without review and dialog, is bound to wind up with far more problems then the issue it was supposed to fix.

Is this the correct solution - Not sure mostly because it needed to be discussed and looked at by qualified representatives of Gold who have been in the Gold program long enough to understand it, that would include managers, coaches, as well as Socal ASA current and prior representatives. I even suggested they hold the meeting on a weekend and not during mid-week as we all work and can not just drop what we are doing to drive to Diamond Bar. I suggested to have it in Huntington beach as most teams would be playing there in Gary's Surf City and could break away for a meeting. Result? twenty five of 130 mangers represented at the meeting instead of a possible 100 or more. For now, they don't even answer emails when asked to discuss concerns.
I also believe the proposal was not drafted by Gary Haning and I also believe Gary reccomended that this not be started until 2010. However, it still falls on Socal ASA to enact any regulation or rule in a proffessional manner the considers all who support their organization.

[Sam]

For the record. I am not in support of the proposal as it is. Asked for there to be a meeting that could come up with better suggestions, asked to allow Gold managers to review whatever was decided on to look for loop holes, and asked for them not to start it at a minimum until 2010. The reply was that this was for Socal teams only which I guess means Dave Marin did not know Cruisers play out of Socal. Just as they did not know who Bruce Richardson was at the coaches meeting. Seems to be , the Gold commissioner should know who their Gold managers are if they have been around as long as Socal A's have as well as Cruisers.

So Sam, you can continue to look for some sort of good old boy conspiracy but it does not exist here. This agenda is being ushered by SOCAL ASA alone with the help of who they decided was best qualified but it certainly did not include all the top Gold managers. In addition, this rule benefits the second tier gold teams far more then it will the top tier. The top tiered teams have mostly if not completely filled their Gold rosters by now. The next tier can no go qualify, declare they are gold, and pick those one or two good players who's teams do not make it.

Did something need to be done about the number of Gold teams? yes, without a doubt an dmaybe this is the right solution. But other solutions might have been available and the exact problem has to first be clearly define dbefore you find a fix. Laslty, pushing it ahead without thinking and making a rule change the affects 130 some teams without review and dialog, is bound to wind up with far more problems then the issue it was supposed to fix.

Is this the correct solution - Not sure mostly because it needed to be discussed and looked at by qualified representatives of Gold who have been in the Gold program long enough to understand it, that would include managers, coaches, as well as Socal ASA current and prior representatives. I even suggested they hold the meeting on a weekend and not during mid-week as we all work and can not just drop what we are doing to drive to Diamond Bar. I suggested to have it in Huntington beach as most teams would be playing there in Gary's Surf City and could break away for a meeting. Result? twenty five of 130 mangers represented at the meeting instead of a possible 100 or more. For now, they don't even answer emails when asked to discuss concerns.
I also believe the proposal was not drafted by Gary Haning and I also believe Gary reccomended that this not be started until 2010. However, it still falls on Socal ASA to enact any regulation or rule in a proffessional manner the considers all who support their organization.

Andy,

Gary was instrumental in drafting the proposal. He said so on eteamz. Why do they need to reduce the number of Gold teams? The teams that are going to qualify will qualify. The number of teams has nothing to do with it.

How does this help a single young lady currently playing Gold or future generations of players? Nobody has answered this question.

[Sam]

This is not an ASA issue. Frankly, this wasn't David Marin's idea. Nobody "voted" for this. I'm told two people from the elite teams went to the Region 14 reps after Gold Nationals and told them that if they didn't make changes (this was one of them) that they would not go back to gold nationals again. They told the Region 14 reps they would run a norcal/socal tournament at the same time as gold nationals and they would get other top teams to also abandon gold nationals. This was nothing more then a power play. It is no secret that 95% of this proposal came from Gary Haning.

Having said that, I believe this will strengthen the second tier teams. They will pick up a few key players when they earn one of the forty spots. Lancaster will be more competitive this summer and there may be some surprises. As Sam said, be careful what you wish for!

By the way Sam, Dave Marin did qute the scores in qualification games as evidence of the problem. Too many weaker teams cause these teams to use up their pitching and then these teams aren't competitive at the moment of truth. I'm not agreeing with this, just pointing out what was said in the gold meeting on October 15th.

This doesn't happen without Dave Marin's active support. If he refused to do it...it wouldn't happen....over half of the registered Gold teams in the Region are under his perview. He pushed it.

[andy]

Sam
Socal ASA was discussing this issue at Champions Cup. I believe AP drafted the original format we now have with Gary Editing it but I could be wrong. What I do know is the majority of the other Gold managers did not get to draft or edit this or get an an opportunity to suggest any other proposed way to achieve what the perceived problem is . In either case, Gary is the most knowledgeable person at Gold or in softball and his ideas bring far more credibility to any rule change then those that are typically enacted. He was instrumental throughout the years in getting rid of the Gold point system which did not work and many other good changes. However, it should be noted David Marin on the other hand has not even been to a Gold Nationals.
With that said, the game still comes down to pitching and those who are already Gold most likely have their pitching and those who will qualify in January and February will do so with good pitching, so I do not predict a saddened strengthening of teams after the qualifiers. One significant difference will be college pitchers will not be there to help a team qualify as a gold team. In the previous years, a team could bring in a college pitcher and qualify in the summer and may not have the chance to make it to summer as Gold to bring that pitcher in.

More significantly, it should be noted that Gold berths are awarded by number of team registering. Thus with the decrease in Socal, Region 14 could wind up losing a berth to a larger area that does register everyone that wants to be gold such as Texas. Thus one of my concerns is having rukles in Socal that the rest of the Nation does not have and wind up actually hurting our teams.

[LVTHEGAME]

I'm wonderting what you team managers will be telling your players. what are the players saying any feed back from them.

[movinup]

Andy's last point cannot be overlooked. Socal lost berths when the top four teams from the previous year didn't automatically qualify for gold nationals the following year. Now, by limiting the number of gold teams in socal, we could lose berths by virtue of the fact we have less registered teams then they do in Texas (for example). That is how berths for the following year are allocated - by registered gold teams! I certainly hope Dave, Mike and Phil thought about this potential flaw!

[Sam]

Andy's last point cannot be overlooked. Socal lost berths when the top four teams from the previous year didn't automatically qualify for gold nationals the following year. Now, by limiting the number of gold teams in socal, we could lose berths by virtue of the fact we have less registered teams then they do in Texas (for example). That is how berths for the following year are allocated - by registered gold teams! I certainly hope Dave, Mike and Phil thought about this potential flaw!

Does it look like these guys thought about any single thing OTHER than reducing the size of the Lancaster Regional Tournament? The commissioner on the east coast and midwest have to be laughing their behinds off at the utter stupidity of Region 14's leadership. Funny how this idiotic idea didn't help the players and now kills the chances of some California teams....just so some elite teams wouldn't have to play a single game more at Lancaster. Simpletons...