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6u/8u rec curriculum

What's on your mind?

by Momo's Dad » Mon Oct 25, 2010 4:52 pm

Based on your experiences, should rec leagues have a designed program of instruction that is taught so that players receive consistent teaching as they progress through a rec league?

I've seen it done both ways, but wondered what the forum's opinions on this are.

Thanks in advance.
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by Surehitter » Tue Oct 26, 2010 12:16 am

At 6u/8u you will have dads as coaches and it really comes down to the girls having fun. Very rarely will you have much structure or decent coaches at this level. Just sit back - relax and hope your daughter has a dad that kinda gets it and your daughter has a good time.
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by Gone in 2.6 » Tue Oct 26, 2010 10:40 am

At 6U/tee ball, the main goal is probably to find a way to keep the games and practices fun and interesting (tee ball tends to drag). If most of the players return for another year, the tee ball coach has probably been successful.
"And as I watch you disappear into the ground
My one mistake was that I never let you down"
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by Momo's Dad » Tue Oct 26, 2010 11:29 am

I know that parents can pull their daughters from rec leagues for a wide variety of reasons, but when it comes to the girls, the general rule is that if they enjoy doing something, then they'll be more likely to want to continue doing it.

What's the typical dropoff in participation between 6u and 10u? Assuming that some girls lost will be replaced by new girls coming in at 8u and 10u, is an aggregate 50% reduction in numbers something that's seen in most leagues? I know that there's a huge drop after 12u for a variety of factors related to teen girls being teen girls, but right now, I'm mainly interested in getting the 6u players to stick with and progress in the game through 10u and hopefully into 12u.

Knowing how impatient today's young adults can be, my thought is that if more parents see their kids having fun and learning (which I believe would be facilitated by 10u coaches not having to re-instruct things the girls never really learned in 6u), then they'll be more likely to encourage their daughters to continue on in softball for another season.

I'm not trying to fix anything overnight, but I am looking for any ideas to help shore up the 3-year plan I've begun writing.
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by SoCalASABlue » Tue Oct 26, 2010 11:36 am

Not sure what other rec leagues are doing but ours is reducing registration fees for 6U to encourage new participants and returning players.
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by hotwheels » Tue Oct 26, 2010 12:12 pm

Momo's Dad wrote:I know that parents can pull their daughters from rec leagues for a wide variety of reasons, but when it comes to the girls, the general rule is that if they enjoy doing something, then they'll be more likely to want to continue doing it.

What's the typical dropoff in participation between 6u and 10u? Assuming that some girls lost will be replaced by new girls coming in at 8u and 10u, is an aggregate 50% reduction in numbers something that's seen in most leagues? I know that there's a huge drop after 12u for a variety of factors related to teen girls being teen girls, but right now, I'm mainly interested in getting the 6u players to stick with and progress in the game through 10u and hopefully into 12u.

Knowing how impatient today's young adults can be, my thought is that if more parents see their kids having fun and learning (which I believe would be facilitated by 10u coaches not having to re-instruct things the girls never really learned in 6u), then they'll be more likely to encourage their daughters to continue on in softball for another season.

I'm not trying to fix anything overnight, but I am looking for any ideas to help shore up the 3-year plan I've begun writing.

As far as the huge drop off after 12U...It usually has nothing to do with the kid and everything to do with the parent who ruined it for them! Just my opinion based on experience of course!
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by twinsmom » Tue Oct 26, 2010 1:12 pm

I don't know if this is the type of thing you are after or not but our rec league fell apart due to several factors many of which could have been corrected by the things below ...

1) Too short a season. I am not talking about playing 12 months of travel ball, I am talking about a season that effectively was 6 weeks or less. This was not enough time to get the kids going and teach them anything. I would recommend 2 week preseason where they have practice 2 times a week maybe for 1-1 1/2 hours. Then move on to games - 1 per week or double header once a week whatever, but allow still for at least one practice weekly to continue working on skills. Minimum 12 games in my opinion but that also depends on the number of teams.

2) Agree with above - make fees as reasonable as you possibly can. Flyers at the schools, library, activity center, etc..... Most of the kids that played previously knew that sign up was coming, but there were never any new recruits because families didn't know about it. Combine with baseball and offer family rates so that entire families can be at the fields together.

3) Coaches clinic - Offer a coaching clinic with drills for different age groups so that coaches have a starting point. Do this 2 weeks or so before practices start and offer at least 2 of them.

4) Kids playing together - allow kids from the same classes or church groups to play together. At this age, it is ridiculous to insist upon drafts - I don't think t-ballers are really that much better than each other. If the kids know one another they have fun and parents are more likely to be able to help carpool. Plus if one kid and a friend jump in maybe you will get a few more if they can play on the same team.

5) Other sports - If there is a rec league for soccer or swim going on at the same time, TALK with the leaders of that group. Work it out so that kids can participate in both. If all soccer games are on Thursday, then work your games around them. Our soccer and softball leagues refused to budge and most of the kids had to pick and choose at 6-7 and give up the other as they wouldn't work together. This hurt the kids and the programs as they had fewer and fewer participants.

6) "league 10U/12U" - If the interest is there, offer a league night for select teams. I am not talking those kids that are ASA National qualifiers. I am talking those kids who are in between true rec ball and upper level teams. Give them a place to play that has a higher quality of play, but doesn't require them to play year round 24/7. There are many kids who aren't sure softball is where they want to be but the rec league doesn't offer enough in the way of instruction. Give those kids a choice.

As for drills and curriculum, I am sure there are a wealth of drills out there for kids from 4-11. I can send you a list of what we did for ours before they moved into select from 4-5 y/o's on up if you are more interested in that type of thing.

Sounds like you are trying to strengthen the woodwork so to speak of your rec league and good for you. Many have come through the ranks. These are just some things, we tried around here. Unfortunately we did not have enough support and there was not enough man power to push it through. I wish you luck.
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by Momo's Dad » Tue Oct 26, 2010 1:33 pm

That's a great idea, Blue. I'm a businessman myself, and discounts to existing customers do help boost retention.

Hotwheels - I'm not dismissing your opinion, because I know that's the reason we lose a lot of players, but I've read a lot of literature that states most kids leave sports around the time their bodies begin to change, a time which often coincides with sports becoming more competitive and also with increased activity in their social lives, separate and apart from what should be an increased focus on academics as well. Parents have a lot to do with whether their kids will enjoy their life in sports, you're right, but they have no control whatsoever over how a girl's body will develop and although they can influence her personality to help her be more competitive, that isn't something that parents can force upon them. Some girls are just geared towards charging harder for the ball than others, despite a parent's deepest wishes.

My daughter is still very young, but conversations I've had over the years with teen girls and with women who are former athletes support what the social scientists and sports psychologists say about girls leaving sports en masse between 13-16. The best athletes tend to stick with the sports they're best at, while the benchwarmers tend to quit sports altogether and once they're gone at 13, they rarely come back at 15-16.

One of my goals is for the girls to at least be interested in staying with softball (or any sport, for that matter) up until the age of 12. If we can get more of them to that level, it stands to reason we'll have more continuing beyond that age than we currently do.
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by Momo's Dad » Tue Oct 26, 2010 5:37 pm

Twinsmom - Terrific insight and suggestions, thanks so much.

We typically have a 7-week/14-game season here, which is what we see in many northern California rec leagues. After that, 10/12/14/16u all-stars generally have a 6-week season during the summer. This past summer, a handful of leagues sent 8u teams to play a few round-robin friendlies, but most of the leagues in the region elected not to participate. The cost was around $100/team per game day. The notice about the 8u offerings didn't come out until summer, but although most leagues didn't want to bother with it (for some it was a hassle, while others don't believe in 8u all-stars), the people who did participate told me they loved it. The girls liked being included in something they considered special, and the coaches liked the fact that there girls were getting more games along with the laid-back setting.

Our teams actually have a chance to get in 6-8 practices before their first official games, but it's been my observation that we have a significant number of girls who simply haven't played enough catch with Mom or Dad or a sibling. I'm not saying that a 6-year-old needs to perform like Arod, but our coaches are essentially starting from scratch and it's my non-expert opinion that this is a tough task and that it's especially tough for those new or young coaches who've played the game all their lives. Intuition might tell them that any 7-year-old can throw a ball, but telling a kid to 'throw to 1st!' doesn't mean much if kid-friendly basics aren't reinforced from that very first practice.

One of the things we're possibly going to implement for 2011 is a pre-season clinic. This will give parents and younger players something to work on together prior to the start of formal practices. More reps generally = more coordination and certainly more confidence. It might also help to get some of the 3rd-4th year players out to start sharpening their skills before evaluation day.

I know that each coach has the required certification and many of them are former ball players who bring their own instructional philosophies to the league, but maybe a little more uniformity would be a good thing. True, kids are adaptable, but I think we lose a little something when a kid is asked to unlearn something she learned in spring in order to satisfy her fall ball coach.

We do allow t-ball clusters, but that goes away for 8u and above with the exception of siblings and coach pairs. I was initially opposed to the 8-year-old shuffle, but when it was explained to me, I understood and accepted why most rec leagues out here choose to hold a draft. But as for ensuring more competitive balance, when looking just at the results, I would say the draft system was as big a failure as allowing coaches to recruit directly. lol In 8u, my daughter's team won only 2 games. In all but a few games, I'd say they were competitive. In 10u, however, there was a team that didn't win a single game and they were never actually *in* a game, as they were outscored by 100 runs on the season.

Yes, losing is a part of life, but the winless 10u team is losing their best player to travel ball and I don't know what the rest of the girls will do.

With the exception of the pre-season seeding tournament, all games are played on Sundays during the fall, which allows the girls to play soccer.

I don't know if we have the numbers to support it yet, but maybe we could coordinate with other nearby leagues to get a mid-level program going for those girls in the 8-12u range who are too advanced for rec, yet not quite good enough for - or willing to commit to - travel ball. Although I see this missing link as one of the biggest laments for a lot of parents and players region-wide, I'm wondering why this has never come together as opposed to everyone and his brother thinking he needs to start a travel team in order to keep his daughter progressing. I may not have the time to work on something like that next spring, but I'll definitely present it to our board and see whether anyone is willing to take it on, because I think it's a great idea.

I would absolutely love any tips/tricks you could offer. I'm here to learn!

Thanks so much for the thorough post. I appreciate your time in sharing. Yes, even though my own daughter is older, I'm fully committed to helping our league rebuild its foundation. My fingers are crossed in hoping that the parents - even those whose daughters have aged out of 6u - will support what we're trying to do here.
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by Momo's Dad » Thu Oct 28, 2010 4:00 pm

One of my points of emphasis is limiting roster size at 6u and eliminating the catcher position.

In the 3 years I've been here, because T-ballers are generally the last to sign up, teams end up with between 11 and 13 girls on each roster. As a result, one of the common defensive formations is a 12-girl infield which doesn't do much in the way of helping girls learn about the positions they're playing. And honestly, when it comes to t-ball, what purpose do outfielders serve?

My thought is that rosters should be 6-7 girls each, with the 5 standard positions, plus a rover. If a team has 7 players dressed, the 7th would be the lone outfielder or could don the catcher's gear at the coach's discretion.

The benefits to going with smaller rosters would be that the girls would get more reps in the field and could get 4 at-bats per game as opposed to the current 2 at-bats. As things stand right now, a girl could conceivably play an entire season and field only one ball, or less.

Is there any benefit to having a catcher in t-ball?
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