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A little help here please.

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by str8up » Fri Mar 21, 2008 11:41 am

Runner at 3rd, no outs, batter takes ball 4 as the catcher gets the ball back to the pitcher quickly in the circle. My third base runner maintains her lead as the walked batter is about halfway to 1st the Ump calls my third base runner out for hesitation (no thanks to all the other umpires in the stands...lol).
If I'm not mistaken the base runner/s don't have to make a decision untill the walked batter reaches 1st. (with 1st base open) :ugeek:
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by umpinva » Fri Mar 21, 2008 4:05 pm

str8up wrote:Runner at 3rd, no outs, batter takes ball 4 as the catcher gets the ball back to the pitcher quickly in the circle. My third base runner maintains her lead as the walked batter is about halfway to 1st the Ump calls my third base runner out for hesitation (no thanks to all the other umpires in the stands...lol).
If I'm not mistaken the base runner/s don't have to make a decision untill the walked batter reaches 1st. (with 1st base open) :ugeek:


Spazsdad wrote:Correct call. Once the pitcher has the ball in the circle the LBR is in effect

ps there is no hesitation rule ;)


In this situation the LBR does not go into effect until the batter reaches first base on the ball four award and F1 has the ball in the circle.

NCAA 12.21 LOOK-BACK RULE

12.21.1 The look-back rule is in effect when the ball is live, the batter-runner has touched first base, the are one or more runners, and the pitcher has possession (e.g., has the ball in her hand or glove, under arm or chin, between her legs) and control of the ball within the pitcher’s circle. The pitcher is considered to be in the circle when both her feet are within the circle or on the lines.

NFHS Rule 8 SECTION 7 ART 1

The look-back rule will be in effect when the ball is live, the batter-runner has reached first base or has been declared out, and the pitcher has possession of the ball within the pitcher’s circle.

I have not done any rec ball this year and those rules books are still hiding so I cannot commit to their wording, but I know they are similar.
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by wadeintothem » Fri Mar 21, 2008 6:05 pm

Correct, as stated above, BR must reach first before LBR is in effect.

They pushed this exact play in clinics this year. I think it was mentioned in every clinic I went too. I dont know if they did in a clinic he attended.

Of course, the key to calling it is to get it right!

The problem is too many umpires are letting R1 lead off on the BR rounding straight to 2B play. Thats when it needs to be called (when LBR is in effect).

ie...

R1@3B no outs... ball 4, BR rounds first and goes to 2nd.

Often, as part of this play, coaches will have R1 leading off as part of the "pressure" of this play.

With LBR in effect, R1 hanging around off the bag..DB and R1 out for LBR violation..
LBR is in effect for R1 but BR can still attempt to advance to 2.

Seems like he muffed the call though.
ASA, NCAA, NFHS
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by umpinva » Fri Mar 21, 2008 6:41 pm

wadeintothem wrote:Correct, as stated above, BR must reach first before LBR is in effect.

They pushed this exact play in clinics this year. I think it was mentioned in every clinic I went too. I dont know if they did in a clinic he attended.

Of course, the key to calling it is to get it right!


I do not remember the LBR being covered at the NCAA clinic I attended this year in Atlanta or our local NFHS clinic. It has been skimmed over quickly at meetings for different umpire associations I belong to.

As Wadeintothem mentioned, the key is to enforce the LBR correctly. Last season as the BU in a game my PU banged a runner out at third after ball four on the batter. F2 had quickly returned the ball to F1 to prevent the BR from rounding first and attempting to reach second. While the BR was trotting to first and as R1 at third was off the base conversing with her third base coach my PU declared R1 out on the LBR.

Naturally the third base coach went ballistic and headed toward the plate, I sped ahead of the coach and while passing him said, "Give my partner and I a minute." After discussing the rule with my partner, he changed his call and kept R1 at third.

This now created a $hit storm from the defensive coach until the application of the LBR was explained to him also. Goals were met, we got the call right and kept both coaches in the game.
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by str8up » Fri Mar 21, 2008 11:56 pm

Thank you all for the clarification....may all you umpires (that got this call wrong about 3 times and gave me a minor heart attack in the 3rd base coaches box) soil your beds. :ugeek:
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