great pitcher? or great defense?

[Sam]

( this discussion is the game you are playing today,)
Weak defense, how many things can go wrong? basic grounders make it through the infield. Pop fly balls dropped. Overthrows. Passed ball catcher. stolen bases
catcher horrible pop time. Tag and drop the ball.
bad relay from The Outfield. not able to field a bunt and get the out.
not just talking about college ball talking about softball...
As We Know Anything Can Happen out on the softball field. pitchers can control the game to an extent, yikes when defense falls apart.

I would still take the great pitcher on a single game scenario. If the alternative was an average pitcher and great defense, that would be my preference. A weak pitcher will allow a bunch of runs, even with a great defense. I'd take my chances with the great pitcher being dominant enough to get the win.

[GIMNEPIWO]

My .02
I’m with Spaz. Strong pitcher /pitching should be able to overcome some miscues. Maybe 3-4 errors per game? If my defense looks like we should playing under a circus tent too often I need to put someone else in charge of player personnel.

Been coaching at a weak inner city school for the last 5 years but resigned to retire and move out of state this season... The city has no feeder program and very few try out for a sport they have never played ... Those that do potentially tryout put starters in the game at the Varsity level that didn't know which hand to put the glove on the first day of tryouts ... (yes, I did start a B team which took an act of congress to get approved with the first players coming out of that program this year) ... I say this so you understand that 3-4 errors in a game would have been a dream ... Circus tent was the norm. In a season where I had someone that could pitch just satisfactorily if the defense just made the routine plays we could get a win.

Before people start with "I would have done this" or "I would have done that" keep in mind before I got there this school had not won a in district game in 15 years ... There was a somewhat successful attempt to build Rome, but it was taking more than a day. Yes, I would have loved a fireball hurler, but unless she was throwing all K's I needed the D more.

*I understand this is not your typical situation, but just another perspective.

[eclipse09]

What about the catcher? A great pitcher needs a strong catcher. Are you saying weak defense includes a weak catcher? If that is the case then weak pitcher/great defense.

The way I see it, a catcher plays defense ... The OP didn't say a strong battery and weak defense.

Yeah, but hinky suggests a great pitcher gets a lot of strikeouts....

errors lose games. even with multiple strikeouts in a game still have to deal with a lot of hits

I don't think she gets all of the k's without a great catcher so that is why I picked weak pitcher/great D and asked for clarification.

[Hinky]

Catcher part of defense...for clarification.
Agree, Great catcher can help every pitcher. Even make a weak pitcher performance substantially better.

[curveballerguy124]

Ohhhh this is a good one...... I will give you all some of my perspective, in the mens game I am a decent A level pitcher at best, now that being said I play for several different teams. One of those teams are made up of straight ballers both offense and defense most are AA and A major guys so on that team I focus on just throwing strikes I do keep it low and let them do the work I have a good era with them. Team two I have to work my ass off because my defense is NOT strong at all because of that I walk more batters trying to get batters to chase and I once had a 30 minute long inning with them. My era with them looks more like a high batting average true story. Team 3, decent offense and defense we do well we stay in the winners bracket often however we have never won a tourny but we have been runner ups. Point to all my rambling, team #1 I'm relaxed and I have more in the tank to throw at least 2 more games that day, team #2 Im ready to pack up and go home after one game, team #3 I at least have one more game in me!!

So from my perspective a strong defense would be my choice and a mediocre pitcher that can throw strikes and keep it low. Weaker the defense the more you frustrate and tax your pitchers to the point where they are just drained....

[jonriv]

Great question!!!


Some other things to think about

Great Pitcher gets annoyed and frustrated at bad defense making errors behind her

Good defense gets flat-footed and lazy behind bad Pitcher walking everyone



I kind of agree with Sam-give me a Good Pitcher with a Great defense(over a Great Pitcher with a poor defense) I also agree that of the aspects of the game(hitting, pitching, defense) defense is the easiest for a coach to improve

[jonriv]

*I understand this is not your typical situation, but just another perspective.

In the world of HS ball your situation is far too common G

[GIMNEPIWO]

*I understand this is not your typical situation, but just another perspective.

In the world of HS ball your situation is far too common G

LMAO ... Well, I toned it down a bit ... no, a lot ... It was way worse than I let on. But I went there with my eyes wide open from a much stronger program ... Grew tired over the years of watching them get their arses handed to them and no one seemed to care ... Turns out the AD did care and became my biggest supporter.

[GIMNEPIWO]

Great question!!!


Some other things to think about

Great Pitcher gets annoyed and frustrated at bad defense making errors behind her

Good defense gets flat-footed and lazy behind bad Pitcher walking everyone



I kind of agree with Sam-give me a Good Pitcher with a Great defense(over a Great Pitcher with a poor defense) I also agree that of the aspects of the game(hitting, pitching, defense) defense is the easiest for a coach to improve

Your great pitcher who is getting annoyed is also developing an eye (I) problem.

[Sue Trubovitz, Turbo]

In 1984 Long bch state vs. Ucla
Long Beach had great pitching
UCLA - NCAA Champions
had the greatest...
"Debbie Doom" that's her real name, three-time All-American College World Series MVP and Won the BroadRick award, single best player in the nation.

Long Beach state up to bat.
Debbie Doom had struck out 24 of Long Beach State's batters.
Bottom of the 11th inning.
UCLA has two defensive errors.
Long Beach finally gets one base hit, a line drive gapper to left center field to score.
Long Beach State beat UCLA for the first time ever 1-0.
Long Beach had great pitchers supported by an "excellent" defense. Being that our hitting era was average as a team,
Our defense was the greatest obstacle for our competitors.
Go Beach