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Runners Safe or Out?

What's on your mind?

by Battle » Sat Nov 18, 2017 10:48 am

PDad wrote:
Battle wrote:I was just remembering back when....Which leads me to ask has the rule ever changed since 2004? Has it always been worded this way?

I think it's more likely your memory has changed than the rule. :mrgreen:

IIRC, it's been that way since at least 2006/2007 when I looked into it.

While MTR is the historian on rules - especially for ASA, I expect old-timers like UmpSteve can provide perspective.

LOL...You're probably right on the memory.

Where is MTR? Is he MIA?
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by PDad » Sun Nov 19, 2017 6:18 pm

Battle wrote:
PDad wrote:
Battle wrote:I was just remembering back when....Which leads me to ask has the rule ever changed since 2004? Has it always been worded this way?

I think it's more likely your memory has changed than the rule. :mrgreen:

IIRC, it's been that way since at least 2006/2007 when I looked into it.

While MTR is the historian on rules - especially for ASA, I expect old-timers like UmpSteve can provide perspective.

LOL...You're probably right on the memory.

Where is MTR? Is he MIA?

MTR is still around - I see him posting on another site (DFP). There hasn't been much activity on HB for umps to answer.

I haven't seen any sign of wadeintothem anywhere and sometimes wonder about him.
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by UmpSteve » Sun Nov 19, 2017 10:03 pm

PDad wrote:
Battle wrote:
PDad wrote:
Battle wrote:I was just remembering back when....Which leads me to ask has the rule ever changed since 2004? Has it always been worded this way?

I think it's more likely your memory has changed than the rule. :mrgreen:

IIRC, it's been that way since at least 2006/2007 when I looked into it.

While MTR is the historian on rules - especially for ASA, I expect old-timers like UmpSteve can provide perspective.

LOL...You're probably right on the memory.

Where is MTR? Is he MIA?

MTR is still around - I see him posting on another site (DFP). There hasn't been much activity on HB for umps to answer.

I haven't seen any sign of wadeintothem anywhere and sometimes wonder about him.


Oldest rule book in my possession is 1999, but I did ASA in Georgia starting in 1986; also umpired in New Jersey from 1971 to 1984. That rule has been the same (and regularly ruled incorrectly, just like "hands are part of the bat" batted balls) throughout my entire softball umpiring career.

MTR and I have been colleagues and friends for about 20 years; he is still active on several other softball sites. While he has never specifically said so, I believe he is done with this board, as so many of his posts were met with animosity, derision, and disrespect that he didn't deserve. Remaining loyal and committed to ASA in face of opposition simply shouldn't be treated as a character flaw; but it was.

To my knowledge and understanding, Wade is no longer active in softball; family, health, and perhaps some personal issues forced him to make choices in his life that left no time to umpire.
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by PDad » Mon Nov 20, 2017 11:22 am

UmpSteve wrote:MTR and I have been colleagues and friends for about 20 years; he is still active on several other softball sites. While he has never specifically said so, I believe he is done with this board, as so many of his posts were met with animosity, derision, and disrespect that he didn't deserve. Remaining loyal and committed to ASA in face of opposition simply shouldn't be treated as a character flaw; but it was.

Some very selective and convenient rationalizing there. MTR regularly treats other posters - especially non-umpires - with derision and disrespect, so it is extremely hypocritical for him to object to others treating him likewise. He does it unprovoked, so don't try to excuse it as strictly retaliatory. He reaps what he sows.

Battle regularly instigated exchanges as a big ASA homer on here and MTR probably took/takes any criticism of ASA/USA personally due to his long service to the org, regardless of whether it was directed toward him or not. That's on him, not us.

MTR expressed a strong disdain for SoCal that preceded PGF and its rise exacerbated it. PGF dethroned ASA as the preeminent fastpitch national championship and in the process destroyed his beloved umpire hierarchy where working ASA Gold Nats was the pinnacle.

I respect MTR's knowledge and past service, but not his boorish behavior.

Thanks for the update on Wade. He was a valued contributor about rules on here. He and others like yourself were very helpful in explaining rules and MTR's cryptic/esoteric posts.
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by Battle » Mon Nov 20, 2017 5:49 pm

Instigate? I never instigated anything I didn't believe in (regardless of what Arto said one time.. :D ). I don't think MTR was as biased as you think. I think he jumped me a few times. As far as ASA, he might have thought as I do/did in which I believe/believed that PGF was one of the worst thing to happen to softball although I can't really speak for him. I hated to see the only thing that brought the whole country together for a real feel nationals go away. Now it's just a vacation and for the folks in Cali, I suspect it's just another local tourney/ showcase. :mrgreen:
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by GIMNEPIWO » Tue Dec 05, 2017 8:35 am

Comp wrote:
Battle wrote:So lets say the ball hit the runner and went into no mans land where the runner on 3rd would've scored and the runner on 2nd would be on 3rd. It's called a dead ball with R1 out but clear that the IF had a play on the ball. What is the proper way to approach the umpires or appeal respectfully? Can it be appealed?


What you are asking is not really an appeal, but questioning the umpire about the misapplication of a rule. You need to call time and approach the umpire that made the call. Ask what they saw and ruled and if you feel they may have misapplied a rule you can ask them if they will consult with their partner about clarification on the call. If you still do not agree with their call and feel they have misapplied the rule you can always protest.

If you do protest and win, then the umpires would place the runners where they judge they would have reached if not for the incorrect call.


You can always protest, but the protest does not have to be heard as I found out (NFHS rule set protest in VHSL in my case). I wonder if other H.S. leagues have a similar policy ?
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